Counter Opinion - Illegal Alien Crime Problems Made Up By Some Leaders (visa, enemies)
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Crime one; Walking in our door.
See it started already right from the get go.
Document fraud; usually crime #2, it continues from there to support the first crime.
Doesn't have to be robbery, kidnapping, and such to still be a crime.
Quote:
Originally Posted by crbcrbrgv
Obviously you are one of those that believes illegal is illegal. Am I to assume that every time you go over the speed limit, you report yourself to the police and pay the fine?
i am one that believes that if you break the law, and are caught, you need to pay up. and yes i fracture a few traffic laws now and again, and each time i was caught doing so, i manned up and paid my debt.
Quote:
Originally Posted by crbcrbrgv
How dare you! If I wanted to see a good beating, I would watch Arizona lawmakers beat up the constitution instead.
and the obama adminstration doesnt beat up the constitution? they do so everyday my friend, where in the constitution is the federal government allowed to own private industry? where does it say the president can fire a ceo of a private company? arizona is not beating up the constitution, the federal government is.
Quote:
Also, I'll admit I do speed from time to time. And obviously, when I take the high road, I blow past everyone else.
just remember to pay up when you get caught.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TigerLily24
Do you live anywhere near Juarez? Been to El Paso lately? I do and have, and, it is nowhere near a 'war zone.' I was there over 4th of July weekend. People were out shopping and strolling along the downtown streets, visiting the museums, filling up the malls. I saw license plates from TX, NM, CO, Chihuahua... I didn't see a single incident, other than one person pulled over for speeding. Pretty mundane stuff.
just because you dont see it doent mean it isnt there.
Quote:
Honestly, there is more crime in Chicago than in all of the border cities combined.
well chicago was built on crime.
Quote:
Virtually no one who has posted in this thread has addressed the points raised by the OP - why are our politicians 'selling' these lies? The border patrol and local LE report that there is less crime and that the border has never been more secure, meanwhile the AZ governor outright lies about 'beheaded bodies' and people are willing to take her at her word, despite all evidence to the contrary.
Why?
are you sure they are lies? just because the media doesnt print the stories doesnt mean things are not happening like some politicians claim. as was said, many crimes go unreported.
Quote:
As for all those jobs the illegals are taking and what the president isn't doing, here is a place looking to hire after an ICE investigation. Anyone interested? Apparently not.
"After completing a federally mandated local labor search, Gebbers Farms applied to the federal guest worker program to import about 1,200 legal temporary workers — most from Mexico. The guest workers, who can stay for up to six months, also included about 300 from Jamaica."
So, basically, we are still inviting non-citizens into our country to provide services that we, as American citizens are not interested in providing to our fellow citizens. Ah, the irony.
the difference is that these people coming in are LEGAL. they are going through the proper channels, and they leave when their contracts are up. i have dealt with many of these people. they come here LEGALLY from all over the world. i have met jamaicans, dated one too, indonesians, russians, poles, chechs, bosnians, etc. all wonderful people, all doing good work, but all doing seasonal work. but again these people come here LEGALLY!!!! i have no problem with that. i do have a problem with people who come here illegally and expect that we will welcome them with open arms and open wallets. they suck the life out of the country, as well as they suck up taxpayer money in many forms.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AZLiam
What about the entire state of AZ? I don't seem to remember Phoenix being the kidnapping capital of the U.S. a few years ago.
Investigators say the activity remains largely contained within the criminal underworld in the city as a "bad guy kidnapping bad guy"
Quote:
Originally Posted by mohawkx
No I am not saying that criminal on criminal crimes are OK nor have I said that there are no innocent people ever caught in the middle but I'm trying to put the kidnapping issue in perspective rather than spread fear and misinformation to inflame the public against hispanics.
Drugs are a big problem in America and the supply is fueled by nasty drug gangs. The only solution is for American citizens to stop buying drugs from south of the border.
Illegal immigration is a problem and the solution is to target the employers who hire them and provide income for the illegals.
i agree with much of what you have said, i agree that employers that hire illegals need to be severely punished. i agree that criminals need to be severely punished. i agree that people need to stop using illegal drugs.
and yes illegals tend to commit crimes on each other, but they also commit crimes against legal citizens as well. if we would control the borders, and deport the illegal aliens, crime rates would in fact drop. sheriff arpio has 1100 illegal aliens in custody right now that have been convicted of violent felonies. i dont know how many sheriff dupnick has in custody, but i would bet it is a similar number. and these are just the violent felons. how about the non violent felons? how many of those are in custody?
What about the entire state of AZ? I don't seem to remember Phoenix being the kidnapping capital of the U.S. a few years ago.
According to City-Data, the overall crime stats index for Phoenix in 1999 was a score of 621.7, while in 2008 it substantially improved to 482.1. Assault, robbery, rape and murder rates were all down. Surrounding large areas such as Mesa (1999 index of 438.4/2008 index of 332.1), Glendale (1999 index of 507.5/2008 index of 431.5) and Chandler (1999 index of 303.0/2008 index of 246.0) also indicate a significant decrease in crime rates over the past decade.
These are the stats folks, right from the information page of each city.
i am one that believes that if you break the law, and are caught, you need to pay up. and yes i fracture a few traffic laws now and again, and each time i was caught doing so, i manned up and paid my debt.
and the obama adminstration doesnt beat up the constitution? they do so everyday my friend, where in the constitution is the federal government allowed to own private industry? where does it say the president can fire a ceo of a private company? arizona is not beating up the constitution, the federal government is.
just remember to pay up when you get caught.
just because you dont see it doent mean it isnt there.
well chicago was built on crime.
are you sure they are lies? just because the media doesnt print the stories doesnt mean things are not happening like some politicians claim. as was said, many crimes go unreported.
the difference is that these people coming in are LEGAL. they are going through the proper channels, and they leave when their contracts are up. i have dealt with many of these people. they come here LEGALLY from all over the world. i have met jamaicans, dated one too, indonesians, russians, poles, chechs, bosnians, etc. all wonderful people, all doing good work, but all doing seasonal work. but again these people come here LEGALLY!!!! i have no problem with that. i do have a problem with people who come here illegally and expect that we will welcome them with open arms and open wallets. they suck the life out of the country, as well as they suck up taxpayer money in many forms.
number two in the world.
i agree with much of what you have said, i agree that employers that hire illegals need to be severely punished. i agree that criminals need to be severely punished. i agree that people need to stop using illegal drugs.
and yes illegals tend to commit crimes on each other, but they also commit crimes against legal citizens as well. if we would control the borders, and deport the illegal aliens, crime rates would in fact drop. sheriff arpio has 1100 illegal aliens in custody right now that have been convicted of violent felonies. i dont know how many sheriff dupnick has in custody, but i would bet it is a similar number. and these are just the violent felons. how about the non violent felons? how many of those are in custody?
I live near, and work with many hispanics here in Arizona. They are long time friends and neighbors. From what numerous hispanics have told me, they are for closing the borders as tight as possible. They are for deporting all illegal immigrants with criminal records. They would even willingly turn in the drug dealers and coyotes in their neighborhoods as they know the damage these people do to their community. They would accept the most stringent penalties for illegals as restitution for their coming here. One thing they will never accept though, is the rounding up and deporting of every illegal alien in the country which they themselves honestly estimate at 12-13 million. Currently, the hispanic community in Arizona in general, feel like they are being singled out and spotlighted for political reasons. On the one hand the republicans are targeting them with misinformation and inflamitory claims in an attempt to bring down the Obama administration and appeal to the republican base. On the other, the democrats are using them for political gain. Either way, they are caught in the middle and are pawns in a political game of epic proportions. This is the sad truth.
I live near, and work with many hispanics here in Arizona. They are long time friends and neighbors. From what numerous hispanics have told me, they are for closing the borders as tight as possible. They are for deporting all illegal immigrants with criminal records. They would even willingly turn in the drug dealers and coyotes in their neighborhoods as they know the damage these people do to their community. They would accept the most stringent penalties for illegals as restitution for their coming here. One thing they will never accept though, is the rounding up and deporting of every illegal alien in the country which they themselves honestly estimate at 12-13 million. Currently, the hispanic community in Arizona in general, feel like they are being singled out and spotlighted for political reasons. On the one hand the republicans are targeting them with misinformation and inflamitory claims in an attempt to bring down the Obama administration and appeal to the republican base. On the other, the democrats are using them for political gain. Either way, they are caught in the middle and are pawns in a political game of epic proportions. This is the sad truth.
well said. this is why we need to elect people who will work to secure the borders first. once that happens we can deal with the illegals who are here now, and it can be done on a case by case basis. i doubt that every illegal alien can be rounded up and deported anyway.
well said. this is why we need to elect people who will work to secure the borders first. once that happens we can deal with the illegals who are here now, and it can be done on a case by case basis. i doubt that every illegal alien can be rounded up and deported anyway.
According to City-Data, the overall crime stats index for Phoenix in 1999 was a score of 621.7, while in 2008 it substantially improved to 482.1. Assault, robbery, rape and murder rates were all down. Surrounding large areas such as Mesa (1999 index of 438.4/2008 index of 332.1), Glendale (1999 index of 507.5/2008 index of 431.5) and Chandler (1999 index of 303.0/2008 index of 246.0) also indicate a significant decrease in crime rates over the past decade.
These are the stats folks, right from the information page of each city.
Some more insight into kidnappings in Phoenix:
Quote:
Phoenix had more than 340 such kidnappings reported last year, but police said the real number is much higher because many cases go unreported.
The kidnap victims are typically drug or immigrant-smugglers, who are seen as inviting targets because they have a lot of money, they can raise large sums of cash on short notice, and they are unlikely to go to the police, for fear their own shady dealings will come to light.
Phoenix police said they believe the kidnappers here are not going after legitimate businessmen for fear their families will go to the police.
The kidnappings first came to light in Phoenix three years ago but are rising as overall violence associated with immigrant smuggling intensifies in Arizona.
So you admit the speed limit argument is getting as old as illegal is illegal? Is that fair?
^^^Apparently the arguement is that if some people get away with breaking the law all people should. If so, it is a lame arguement, IMO.
Even if the borders are "more secure than they have been in 20 years" they are still a long way from actually being secured. Is it acceptable for 1/4 of all crimes to be conducted by people who have no legal right to be here? Not in my book.
This has to be a joke. Moral compass? I am sure I am not the first one to point out that consistently breaking county traffic laws results in losing one's privilege to drive. Illegal immigration? Breaking a federal law which results, or should result, in deportation. Except the illegals and their promoters are making a big stink about it being their RIGHT to be here in the US. Understand the difference now?
Just in case not, being illegal in the US is not a right or a privilege that can be given or lost. Rights and privileges as an American citizen are not or should be not afforded to illegals because, to put it real basic, they're not American citizens. It has nothing at all to do with which laws are broken. Illegals shouldn't even be on the radar. Everything they do here is breaking a law because they shouldn't even be here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluesjuke
So you select which laws ought be obeyed and others ignored?
This has to be a joke. Moral compass? I am sure I am not the first one to point out that consistently breaking county traffic laws results in losing one's privilege to drive. Illegal immigration? Breaking a federal law which results, or should result, in deportation. Except the illegals and their promoters are making a big stink about it being their RIGHT to be here in the US. Understand the difference now?
Just in case not, being illegal in the US is not a right or a privilege that can be given or lost. Rights and privileges as an American citizen are not or should be not afforded to illegals because, to put it real basic, they're not American citizens. It has nothing at all to do with which laws are broken. Illegals shouldn't even be on the radar. Everything they do here is breaking a law because they shouldn't even be here.
Exactly
If our borders and laws were enforced we could move on to
different issues
This has to be a joke. Moral compass? I am sure I am not the first one to point out that consistently breaking county traffic laws results in losing one's privilege to drive. Illegal immigration? Breaking a federal law which results, or should result, in deportation. Except the illegals and their promoters are making a big stink about it being their RIGHT to be here in the US. Understand the difference now?
Just in case not, being illegal in the US is not a right or a privilege that can be given or lost. Rights and privileges as an American citizen are not or should be not afforded to illegals because, to put it real basic, they're not American citizens. It has nothing at all to do with which laws are broken. Illegals shouldn't even be on the radar. Everything they do here is breaking a law because they shouldn't even be here.
No one, not even the illegals think it is their right to be here. Where do you get such mis information?
Secondly, reality check. If the republicans controlled the house and the senate and the presidency, there would still never be a blanket deportation of illegals. There would be some kind of one on one determination of residency and path to citizenship for those who are here and do not have any criminal history. To implement a draconian system of mass deportation would be the death of any political party who actually tried to do so and the republicans know this. The repubs are playing to the base right now to gain political advantage. Once they are in power again amnesty will be the word of the day.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
, indonesians, russians, poles, chechs, bosnians, etc. all wonderful people, all doing good work, but all doing seasonal work. but again these people come here LEGALLY!!!! i have no problem with that. i do have a problem with people who come here illegally and expect that we will welcome them with open arms and open wallets. they suck the life out of the country, as well as they suck up taxpayer money in many forms.
