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Old 12-02-2012, 08:59 AM
 
Location: The middle of nowhere Arkansas
3,325 posts, read 2,851,286 times
Reputation: 1011

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Quote:
Originally Posted by DUNNDFRNT View Post
So you don't think the fact that a lot of these people are employed by companies who don't offer health insurance, and pay a wage that even after working 50+ hrs you still qualify for food stamps/public assistance has nothing to do with those stats. As much as social safety net programs are a rallying cry for the so-called pro business right, these programs subsidize their labor force.
Yes they do, at my expense and yours too assuming you pay taxes. That's the problem.......isn't it?
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Old 12-02-2012, 09:13 AM
 
47,531 posts, read 63,152,039 times
Reputation: 22320
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dutchman01 View Post
.............and you would be wrong.

source
Cute statistics --- that show absolutely nothing at all -- as "Mexican American" is a term that includes anyone of Mexican ancestry that is here on this side of the border - legally or illegally. Certainly that term includes the anchor babies born here to get the mother her lavish welfare handouts.

Find some that break it down with arrival of the parents.

The group that never immigrated but was here before their state joined the USA.

The group that arrived in the early 1900s.

The group that came after that point but before the 1950s.

The group that arrived between the 1950s and the late 1980s.

Those that came with the big flood in the late 1980s and since that time.

From personal observation, I don't see any difference between the never immigrated or came before the 1920s and other Americans. I seriously doubt they just decided to start cranking out babies they couldn't afford and now find themselves with Medicaid and food stamps for that choice.
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Old 12-02-2012, 11:03 AM
 
Location: Jacurutu
5,302 posts, read 4,334,906 times
Reputation: 602
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
Still can't substantiate your "30%" claim, eh? Still grasping at straws. C'mon, IBM, we both know you have no proof. How could you, considering there is NO reliable data?...
The same proof as you have:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
...However, the "Hispanic" birthrate has grown at a disproportionate rate over the past decade. I believe it's fair to assume a large percentage, if not the majority, are illegal aliens. In fact, Hispanic "immigrant" births have accounted for the majority of the growth in this country...
Hispanic "immigrant" births have not been a majority of growth in this country based on that they haven't even been a majority of births in this country...

But you even dismiss that there is anything other than illegal alien mothers among those Hispanic "immigrant" births, defining them all as illegal aliens:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
...Of course, they don't specify that the "Hispanic women born outside the U.S." are here illegally...
The percentage given was that 56% of Hispanic births were to mothers born themselves outside the United States. 44% were to U.S.-born mothers. Why do you discount the sizable population of Hispanic legal immigrants, including those that have naturalized?

You need to account for those statements before you can understand something like 25% of the births to Hispanic legal residents and naturalized U.S. citizen (Pew also groups Puerto Ricians among the "foreign-born" on this report) is certainly possible...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
...The government doesn't want us to know the true magnitude of this invasion, which is why they refuse to even attempt to collect data on illegal alien births, crime, fiscal burden, or any aspect of illegal immigration...
Patently false, as the DHS statistics on illegal immigration are regularly contested by name on this forum...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
...Heck, they won't even separate info on illegal aliens in our prison population. No, they prefer to place illegals in the same category as legal immigrants, when they could easily maintain separate data. But, then, they're all "immigrants" aren't they? No distinction should be made between those here legally or illegally. Right? After all, according to PC doctrine, illegal is now synonymous with legal. But, they damn sure can tell us with pinpoint accuracy the number of black welfare recipients, out-of-wedlock births, convicts, etc. can't they?
It appears we can't even stay focused on Hispanic birth rates on this topic, but at least I haven't seen anything about "sperm donors" yet...
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Old 12-02-2012, 11:41 AM
 
Location: The middle of nowhere Arkansas
3,325 posts, read 2,851,286 times
Reputation: 1011
Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
Cute statistics --- that show absolutely nothing at all -- as "Mexican American" is a term that includes anyone of Mexican ancestry that is here on this side of the border - legally or illegally. Certainly that term includes the anchor babies born here to get the mother her lavish welfare handouts.

Find some that break it down with arrival of the parents.

The group that never immigrated but was here before their state joined the USA.

The group that arrived in the early 1900s.

The group that came after that point but before the 1950s.

The group that arrived between the 1950s and the late 1980s.

Those that came with the big flood in the late 1980s and since that time.

From personal observation, I don't see any difference between the never immigrated or came before the 1920s and other Americans. I seriously doubt they just decided to start cranking out babies they couldn't afford and now find themselves with Medicaid and food stamps for that choice.
The term covers everyone of mexican ancestry that is an american citizen. While it "may" include those recently arrived it also includes those who have been here for the last 200 years. The fact is in a multicultural society not everyone is going to share your cultural values.

My article indicated "mexican americans" produce more children than white folk do. Your article, oh yes, you didn't provide one did you? Well, in that case why don't you get back to me when you can provide some support for your suppositions why donja?
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Old 12-02-2012, 12:09 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,172 posts, read 16,756,122 times
Reputation: 3032
Quote:
Originally Posted by IBMMuseum View Post
The same proof as you have:



Hispanic "immigrant" births have not been a majority of growth in this country based on that they haven't even been a majority of births in this country...

But you even dismiss that there is anything other than illegal alien mothers among those Hispanic "immigrant" births, defining them all as illegal aliens:



The percentage given was that 56% of Hispanic births were to mothers born themselves outside the United States. 44% were to U.S.-born mothers. Why do you discount the sizable population of Hispanic legal immigrants, including those that have naturalized?

You need to account for those statements before you can understand something like 25% of the births to Hispanic legal residents and naturalized U.S. citizen (Pew also groups Puerto Ricians among the "foreign-born" on this report) is certainly possible...



Patently false, as the DHS statistics on illegal immigration are regularly contested by name on this forum...



It appears we can't even stay focused on Hispanic birth rates on this topic, but at least I haven't seen anything about "sperm donors" yet...
I think you need to re-read the report. The "56%" was in reference to the Hispanic percentage of "minority" births, which accounted for almost 92% of the growth in this country. It had nothing to do with Hispanic women born inside or outside the US. So, if almost 92% of the growth was due to minority births, and 56% of minority births were Hispanic, clearly, the majority of births in this country were Hispanic.

Quote:
Results from the 2010 Census showed that racial and ethnic minorities accounted for 91.7% of the nation’s growth since 2000. Most of that increase from 2000 to 2010—56%—was due to Hispanics.
I have NEVER claimed to know the exact number of births by illegal aliens. No one does. I'm not sure why you're continuing this nonsense, because you know you have nothing of substance to support your argument.

Patently false my foot. You know the government pulls those numbers from the sky. In fact, the government refuses to allow schools to determine their illegal alien enrollment, refuses to allow social services to inquire about immigration status, refuses to allow the IRS or SSA to differentiate between illegal aliens and legal immigrants, and even refuses to allow the Census Bureau to include questions on immigration status. They rely solely on guesstimates. So, how on earth can DHS or any other agency maintain data even remotely resembling the facts? Please. And yes, it's the height of hypocrisy for the government to claim maintaining data on illegal aliens would somehow be discriminatory, while having no problem compiling data on other groups.

Again, you said you "believe" only 30% of Hispanic births were to illegal aliens. Either prove it, or admit you can't. It's just that simple.
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Old 12-02-2012, 01:12 PM
 
1,575 posts, read 1,554,268 times
Reputation: 749
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
I think you need to re-read the report. The "56%" was in reference to the Hispanic percentage of "minority" births, which accounted for almost 92% of the growth in this country. It had nothing to do with Hispanic women born inside or outside the US. So, if almost 92% of the growth was due to minority births, and 56% of minority births were Hispanic, clearly, the majority of births in this country were Hispanic.



I have NEVER claimed to know the exact number of births by illegal aliens. No one does. I'm not sure why you're continuing this nonsense, because you know you have nothing of substance to support your argument.

Patently false my foot. You know the government pulls those numbers from the sky. In fact, the government refuses to allow schools to determine their illegal alien enrollment, refuses to allow social services to inquire about immigration status, refuses to allow the IRS or SSA to differentiate between illegal aliens and legal immigrants, and even refuses to allow the Census Bureau to include questions on immigration status. They rely solely on guesstimates. So, how on earth can DHS or any other agency maintain data even remotely resembling the facts? Please. And yes, it's the height of hypocrisy for the government to claim maintaining data on illegal aliens would somehow be discriminatory, while having no problem compiling data on other groups.

Again, you said you "believe" only 30% of Hispanic births were to illegal aliens. Either prove it, or admit you can't. It's just that simple.
Don't hold your breath waiting for proof since we both know that none of what has been stated in this case is true.
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Old 12-02-2012, 02:26 PM
 
42,962 posts, read 18,870,716 times
Reputation: 11899
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dutchman01 View Post
The term covers everyone of mexican ancestry that is an american citizen. While it "may" include those recently arrived it also includes those who have been here for the last 200 years. The fact is in a multicultural society not everyone is going to share your cultural values.

My article indicated "mexican americans" produce more children than white folk do. Your article, oh yes, you didn't provide one did you? Well, in that case why don't you get back to me when you can provide some support for your suppositions why donja?
Correction - we have a melting pot culture where we still have one identifying culture. "Out of many, one". There are many sub-cultures that live in this country but that does not make us in "identity", multicultural. We have a mainstream culture that identifies us. I never could understand why some people can't grasp that concept. Just like the old worn out term that we are a land of immigrants (when do we get to shed that stupid label and just be ourselves?). No we are not. We are a nation of Americans and have been for some time now that allows in new immigrants every year but our citizen population way outnumbers our immigrant population. Sorry this got off topic but just replying to the off topic claim that is erroneous.

Last edited by Oldglory; 12-02-2012 at 02:38 PM..
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Old 12-02-2012, 04:44 PM
 
Location: Jacurutu
5,302 posts, read 4,334,906 times
Reputation: 602
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
I think you need to re-read the report. The "56%" was in reference to the Hispanic percentage of "minority" births, which accounted for almost 92% of the growth in this country. It had nothing to do with Hispanic women born inside or outside the US...
This was linked in by "Liquid Reigns" on post #39 (NBC Latino):

Quote:
And of all Hispanic births in 2010, 56 percent were to immigrant mothers.

It has everything to do whether a Hispanic birth was to a mother born in or outside the United States...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
...So, if almost 92% of the growth was due to minority births, and 56% of minority births were Hispanic, clearly, the majority of births in this country were Hispanic...
Bottom of the Yahoo article I quoted in the original post:

Quote:
The majority of births (66 percent) to U.S.-born women were to white mothers. That share has dropped since 1990 when it was 72 percent.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
...I have NEVER claimed to know the exact number of births by illegal aliens. No one does. I'm not sure why you're continuing this nonsense, because you know you have nothing of substance to support your argument...
But I'm at least reading the references correctly...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
...Patently false my foot. You know the government pulls those numbers from the sky. In fact, the government refuses to allow schools to determine their illegal alien enrollment, refuses to allow social services to inquire about immigration status, refuses to allow the IRS or SSA to differentiate between illegal aliens and legal immigrants, and even refuses to allow the Census Bureau to include questions on immigration status. They rely solely on guesstimates. So, how on earth can DHS or any other agency maintain data even remotely resembling the facts? Please. And yes, it's the height of hypocrisy for the government to claim maintaining data on illegal aliens would somehow be discriminatory, while having no problem compiling data on other groups...
Whether you reject those numbers or not, your claim was that the U.S. government didn't track illegal immigration data at all...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
...Again, you said you "believe" only 30% of Hispanic births were to illegal aliens. Either prove it, or admit you can't. It's just that simple.
Why is my opinion held to a higher qualification than yours? You stated:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
...I believe it's fair to assume a large percentage, if not the majority [of Hispanic births], are [to] illegal aliens. In fact, Hispanic "immigrant" births have accounted for the majority of the growth in this country...
Your "fact", was in fact, not true...

44% of Hispanic births in 2010 were to mothers born in the United States. Of the 56% of foreign-born Hispanic mothers in 2010, if only 7% (about 70,000) of that is to Legal Permanent Resident mothers, mothers in Puerto Rico, 'K' visa mothers, or births to Hispanic mothers on valid visitor visas or Border Crossing Cards, then a majority of Hispanic births in the United States in 2010 are not to illegal alien mothers.

So yeah, it wasn't an illegal immigration topic after all...
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Old 12-02-2012, 11:47 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,172 posts, read 16,756,122 times
Reputation: 3032
Quote:
Originally Posted by IBMMuseum View Post
This was linked in by "Liquid Reigns" on post #39 (NBC Latino):


It has everything to do whether a Hispanic birth was to a mother born in or outside the United States...



Bottom of the Yahoo article I quoted in the original post:





But I'm at least reading the references correctly...
Nice try. As you know, I am referring to MY linked info in post #13, which according to the Census Bureau, clearly states that 91.7% of ALL births in this country were "minority" births, of which 56% (the majority) were Hispanic. You then responded in post #17, I replied again in post #18, and the discussion continued. So, why are you now trying to make this a discussion involving LR's post #39, considering his post came well after our discussion? As a matter of fact, even after I responded to his post by saying, "IBM, do you have an opinion on this," you didn't respond. Nor did you reference his post #39, that is, until now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IBMMuseum View Post
Whether you reject those numbers or not, your claim was that the U.S. government didn't track illegal immigration data at all...
The U.S. doesn't track illegal immigration data at all. Did you see any numbers specifically for illegal alien births? If so, please post them, because I have yet to see that data. In fact, the only data I have seen refers to "Hispanic" citizen and non-citizen births, "Hispanic" women born outside the US, Mexican "immigrants" etc. None mention illegal aliens of any race, ethnicity, or national origin.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IBMMuseum View Post
Why is my opinion held to a higher qualification than yours? You stated:
It isn't. However, you continue to insist that illegal aliens only account for the minority of Hispanic births, when you haven't a shred of evidence to support your claim. On the other hand, I admit I can only "assume" based on the available data, which indicates "most" of the Hispanic births were to women born outside the US. According to reports, for the first time in U.S. history, illegal immigration outnumbers legal immigration. Therefore, I can only surmise, the majority of the births are to illegal aliens. Of course, I could be wrong. But, unfortunately, there is no reliable data to prove or disprove my assumption. As long as the government refuses to identify and separate illegal alien births from other categories, one can only speculate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IBMMuseum View Post
Your "fact", was in fact, not true...

44% of Hispanic births in 2010 were to mothers born in the United States. Of the 56% of foreign-born Hispanic mothers in 2010, if only 7% (about 70,000) of that is to Legal Permanent Resident mothers, mothers in Puerto Rico, 'K' visa mothers, or births to Hispanic mothers on valid visitor visas or Border Crossing Cards, then a majority of Hispanic births in the United States in 2010 are not to illegal alien mothers.

So yeah, it wasn't an illegal immigration topic after all...
Again. . . .

Quote:
Results from the 2010 Census showed that racial and ethnic minorities accounted for 91.7% of the nation’s growth since 2000. Most of that increase from 2000 to 2010—56%—was due to Hispanics

But most births to Hispanic women are to those born outside the U.S.

Lacking data specifically on illegal alien births, you knew it wasn't an illegal immigration topic prior to posting this thread.
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Old 12-03-2012, 05:35 AM
Yac
 
6,020 posts, read 6,862,990 times
After reading through this thread, I feel dumber than I was before. Spin spin spin and spin, facts are irrelevant. Sweeping generalizations and double standards, hell yes!

Also, this isn't really an illegal immigration issue.
Closed.
Yac.
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