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I empathize with the plight of these people. Our country was built on immigration. The only difference between immigrants today and those that came from Ireland, Poland, Italy, Germany and many other countries is the fact that there were no laws deeming mine (and many of your) ancestors "illegals". Where you see criminals I see hard working people that risked a lot to come here. The law is the law. I see it as inherently un-American.
Which illegals have come up to you and directly disrespected you in person? And who says we have to change for them? I highly doubt anybody in this thread lives in a neighborhood where illegals are trying to change everything. JDubsMom, don't you live in Katy, Texas? How have illegals changed Katy? When is the last time an illegal came up to you and said "Speak Spanish and wave a Mexican flag, or else." I was born and raised in Chicago and currently live in Houston. It has never happened to me. You also need to keep in mind the Irish, Germans, Jews and Italians were once seen as "invading foreign cultures." The illegals will assimilate. If they don't, they are doomed to generations of poverty. That's the true American way.
If we don't need antagonisits, why are so many in this thread making such gross generalizations about illegals? Isn't that antagonistic?
I know we will never agree on this topic. But I know there are many here that feel the way I do.
I'm not sure why you singled me out, or where you got your information but for the record I have never heard of Katy, TX. If you are going to single me or anyone else out for the purpose of interrogating, lecturing or antagonizing them, you would fair much better by presenting factual information.
That being said, your statement with regards to the subject of illegal immigration is correct. We will never agree.
I could be wrong, but crbcrbrgv appears to be another lucky, cosseted and cocooned young person who has not had the life experience to have dealt directly with the consequences of illegals overwhelming and overburdening an area.
Actually, everything the poster inferred about disrespect happens daily in Los Angeles, plus more ad infinitum. My personal observations and experiences range from minor annoyances- they trash any area where they congregate; all understanding of and all signage in English eventually disappears, without even "bilingual" tokenism; I've been spat on by them; friends have had eggs thrown at them during the pro-criminality/pro-illegal immigration rallies- to the absolute egregious: I've had my cars totalled by illegals driving without licenses(note the plural of cars); during one of these car accidents I did not walk away from, I overheard my ambulance drivers actually argue with E.R.'s that I was a genuine accident victim and they should take me (all E.R.s here in L.A. are overburdened by illegals coming in for minor complaints that must be treated for free. E.R's close as a consequence); and the majority of my ever-increasing local taxes going to services for illegals -services that citizens, both born and naturalized (I am very pro-legal immigration, as naturalized citizens are some of the finest people I've met) will never have- is forcing our eventual relocation from our home of five decades. Have you been forced to relocate by the actions of illegals just because you're not well to do? In fact have you ever lived with illegals at all as I do?
In Los Angeles, illegals come to work the system, not work, and change everything around them for the worse. This poster's own generalizations couldn't be farther from the truth and reality. I'm adding an excerpt from a post of mine for reference as to how this change for the worse inevitably happens, as it has where I live in L.A.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by fastfilm
... Naturalized citizens are valuable assets: illegals have no interest in abiding by American laws, or assimilating to American culture, values, the lingua franca of English, or even standards of hygiene. I indeed live with them, so I'll contest your points now.
Answer 1: Janurary 17, 1994. The Northridge earthquake caused many to lose their homes to extensive damage that FEMA couldn't even amend. The city placed low-income people in properties who then sublet to illegals. My corner of L.A. had been a nice middle class/working class neighborhood of affordable single-family dwellings and low density with the norm for Los Angeles in diversity. I had enjoyed many pleasantries with my neighbors from Jamaica, Brazil, Japan, Africa, et al. Now, one must be a linguist with at least five different languages under one's belt, as few now understand any English whatsoever. Signage in English as well as conversant knowledge in same locally has disappeared to be replaced with the predominant tongue of illegals, forcing longtime residents of all ancestries to shop elsewhere. Thus, illegals have depressed local economies further.
The quality of life difference is also quantifiable. Before, we had no gang graffiti and highly infrequent serious crimes. According to the police force with which my fellow neighborhood activists and I work, we have a much larger statistic of homicides closer to non-gang blocks now, two blocks away for a double homicide a summer ago in my own case. Illegals retain no respect for the laws of our land as they got away a biggie, and incubate gangs and crime. They are self-centered in the extreme, "me first and my family, to h--l with everyone else around us" with this constant mindset of lawlessness, and I have found them to be xenophobic and misogynistic as well.
Answer 2: the influx of illegals and subsequent trashing of surrounding neighborhoods became the tipping point at which the city services waned. Ten years ago our neighborhood activists groups could get the city to implement our well-documented requests. All gone now. We also fought for a Historic Protection Overlay Zone to keep egregious code violations at bay (and retain value for historic homes: routinely they have been gutted of all architectural details by "the newly arrived.") Egregious code violations are not only destructive but dangerous (bonfire pits used in Santa Ana winds, multitudes living in garages- in the garden shed behind me in our own case,) and deflate value of surrounding homes even further. Immaculate is not a word that would ever, ever, ever, ever, ever be applied to illegals' domiciles here, inside or out. See http://www.lawatchdog.com/DeteriorationBlight.html
I post here because I have a before-and-after-illegals P.O.V. and observations from real life experience that others may lack. I hate abstract rhetoric applied: the reality of the destructiveness of illegals to all walks of Americans' lives suffices. American citizens, be they born or naturalized, shouldn't have to witness their own neigihborhoods transmogrify into slums because of illegals and L.A.'s so-called "sanctuary" city status protection of illegals, tacit or otherwise. As much as I continue working to help my surroundings in neighborhood activism, our household is also working with all our might to move away from Los Angeles forever. The trade-offs to the non-rich like ourselves will be worth it. No one should have to be surrounded with such destructive, mean-spirited people as illegals if they possibly can help it.
I could be wrong, but crbcrbrgv appears to be another lucky, cosseted and cocooned young person who has not had the life experience to have dealt directly with the consequences of illegals overwhelming and overburdening an area.
Actually, everything the poster inferred about disrespect happens daily in Los Angeles, plus more ad infinitum. My personal observations and experiences range from minor annoyances- they trash any area where they congregate; all understanding of and all signage in English eventually disappears, without even "bilingual" tokenism; I've been spat on by them; friends have had eggs thrown at them during the pro-criminality/pro-illegal immigration rallies- to the absolute egregious: I've had my cars totalled by illegals driving without licenses(note the plural of cars); during one of these car accidents I did not walk away from, I overheard my ambulance drivers actually argue with E.R.'s that I was a genuine accident victim and they should take me (all E.R.s here in L.A. are overburdened by illegals coming in for minor complaints that must be treated for free. E.R's close as a consequence); and the majority of my ever-increasing local taxes going to services for illegals -services that citizens, both born and naturalized (I am very pro-legal immigration, as naturalized citizens are some of the finest people I've met) will never have- is forcing our eventual relocation from our home of five decades. Have you been forced to relocate by the actions of illegals just because you're not well to do? In fact have you ever lived with illegals at all as I do?
In Los Angeles, illegals come to work the system, not work, and change everything around them for the worse. This poster's own generalizations couldn't be farther from the truth and reality. I'm adding an excerpt from a post of mine for reference as to how this change for the worse inevitably happens, as it has where I live in L.A.)
Thank you for that informative, up close and personal perspective. Sorry I can't rep you yet.
Good post Mom and you are absolutely right, by 2050 the White population is projected at 50% the Hispanic population about 25% (mainly along sun belt). Once the population changes so does the politics, sanctuary policies and amnesty. We wonder why our border is unprotected, yet we are protecting the borders in Iraq. It's all about economics. It's a war that cannot be won. NAFTA has just made the poor poorer and the rich richer.
Good post Mom and you are absolutely right, by 2050 the White population is projected at 50% the Hispanic population about 25% (mainly along sun belt). Once the population changes so does the politics, sanctuary policies and amnesty. We wonder why our border is unprotected, yet we are protecting the borders in Iraq. It's all about economics. It's a war that cannot be won. NAFTA has just made the poor poorer and the rich richer.
Good afternoon RangerDuke! NAFTA was indeed the alpha, but illegal aliens, the corporate crooks and the traitors in our government will come to realize that the voices of the American people are the Omega.
Good afternoon RangerDuke! NAFTA was indeed the alpha, but illegal aliens, the corporate crooks and the traitors in our government will come to realize that the voices of the American people are the Omega.
I could be wrong, but crbcrbrgv appears to be another lucky, cosseted and cocooned young person who has not had the life experience to have dealt directly with the consequences of illegals overwhelming and overburdening an area.
Why does ANY poster who doesn't agree with you guys have to be either
A) anchor baby
B) Illegal alien
C) Stupid and naive?
Has it ever crossed your mind that not all americans agree with your point of view?
illegal immigration battle is not hopeless.
high tech solutions very effective and at hand. kerry said it 9 years ago.
bush poo pooed him but kerry was correct.
universal health and drivers license will be used for this purpose.
no more invisible people. they wont ask who you are, they will already know.
and you will pay like the rest of us, no more freebees.
america is not powerless, justice is not mocked.
I could be wrong, but crbcrbrgv appears to be another lucky, cosseted and cocooned young person who has not had the life experience to have dealt directly with the consequences of illegals overwhelming and overburdening an area.
Not for nothing, but not everyone who disagrees with many of your guys' shared views is a young "cocooned" naive person living in an "ivory tower". That's a stereotype in itself that everyone who disagrees with you on the matter is living so much better than your "rough" life, so can't see the problem.
Many of the posters actually live in communities where there is an illegal presence. Maybe even a large one.
From what I see, you speak from a very specific perspective about a particular area/neighborhood that you live in.
Many people haven't experienced the experiences you alleged to have had, and maybe some have had experiences with illegals that gave them a different perspective.
The illegal immigrants in this country aren't one solid conglomerated group. Like all groups of people, I'm pretty sure it's a case by case kind of thing.
I will agree on two things
1. They are definitely here illegally
2. They are probably working here illegally
Everything else is a case by case thing. You can't paint such a large group with such a broad bush based on what's happening on your street, even if you've heard similar stories by other people in this huge country.
I don't think so much that your guys' experiences are all that unique compared to the people on the other side of the discussion, like so many of you suggest. I think people just have a different perspective on it, a different reaction.
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