California would be MUCH worse off without illegal aliens (deported, jobs, death)
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
By the way, illegal immigrants currently make up 8% total of the entire workforce in America. I hardly think that EVERY American consumer in the U.S. is living off "the fruits of their labors." Would it kill you to look up a statistic before you shoot off your keyboard?
8%? I think it’s closer to 5%. NPR article Would it kill YOU to look up a statistic before you shoot off your keyboard?
Even at 5% of the workforce it is likely that most U.S. citizens enjoy the fruits of some illegal’s labor each and every day. Or do you go out of your way to avoid buildings/homes that were constructed by illegal aliens (as if you could possibly know this). Or eat food prepared by illegals, etc.? You probably enjoy the fruits of illegal alien labor all the time without even realizing it.
Next, YOU CONTRADICT YOUSELF IN THE SAME PARAGRAPH: First you say:
Quote:
“But taking advantage of a person's willingness to work for a fraction of what the job is actually worth really has NO ethical implications to you? I bet you are totally in favor of sweatshops and child labor too, aren't you...”
THEN, a couple of lines below, you say:
Quote:
“And no, I'm not suggesting we increase their wages.”
SO WHICH IS IT? Do you advocate “taking advantage” of illegals for a fraction of what they are worth, or do you advocate taking advantage of U.S. citizens for the same pittance?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kele
Why don't you go down to your local community college and take an Economics class so that you can understand exactly how capitalism and the consumer market REALLY work.
Hey, maybe that's a good idea. What is your alma mater? I'll start there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kele
Thanks for the so-called English lesson.
Ha! When I poke holes in your faulty logic and point out inconsistencies in your arguments all you can do is start crying because I also make fun of your poor grammar. Boo freakin Hoo! Ha!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kele
Perhaps you are the one who needs the math class. Using statistical information available from numerous population growth sites, I used an average based on population fluctuation in California since the last census along with a statistical average of employment aged people in the state of California to arrive at 4.5 million. This figure includes the underemployed, the partially employed, and those who have completely given up. Many financial analysts put the true unemployment figure at 18.47% or higher.
This is just so much bs. You took the 37mil people in CA, the 12% unemployment rate, and multiplied the two. Resulting in 4.5mil (you even cheated by rounding up from 4.44). You forgot that the 37 mil people of Cali includes about 25 mil who are not in the job force. It would be an easy mistake to make. Especially if one has no clue as to what they are talking about. Absolutely no clue whatsoever.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kele
In 1986, Ronald Reagan gave amnesty to over one million illegal immigrants in the U.S. with the promise that this would never again be asked of the American people.
Oh come on. By 1986 Ronald Regan couldn’t even remember his last name due to Alzheimer`s. James Baker was running the country with help from George Shultz and Cap Weinberger. You probably did not realize this because you were sitting in the back of the classroom wearning a cone shaped hat, right?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kele
Additionally, illegal workers are not just picking lettuce and digging ditches any more. It wasn't that long ago that being a dry-waller, brick-layer, house framer, painter, roofer, carpet layer, plumber, or electrician was a decently compensated, middle class trade. Now it is increasingly becoming the work for illegal aliens at far less than the free market rate.
So you are saying it would improve the free market to kick out the low cost providers to make way for those who are higher priced and less ambitious? Are you a communist, or just have no grasp whatsoever of the situation?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kele
These "weak-minded arguments" I've just made ...blah, blah, blah
Finally, FINALLY, we agree on something. Now school is over, so take off that cone shaped hat. You just look silly.
8%? I think it’s closer to 5%. NPR article Would it kill YOU to look up a statistic before you shoot off your keyboard?
Even at 5% of the workforce it is likely that most U.S. citizens enjoy the fruits of some illegal’s labor each and every day. Or do you go out of your way to avoid buildings/homes that were constructed by illegal aliens (as if you could possibly know this). Or eat food prepared by illegals, etc.? You probably enjoy the fruits of illegal alien labor all the time without even realizing it.
Next, YOU CONTRADICT YOUSELF IN THE SAME PARAGRAPH: First you say: THEN, a couple of lines below, you say: SO WHICH IS IT? Do you advocate “taking advantage” of illegals for a fraction of what they are worth, or do you advocate taking advantage of U.S. citizens for the same pittance?
Hey, maybe that's a good idea. What is your alma mater? I'll start there.
Ha! When I poke holes in your faulty logic and point out inconsistencies in your arguments all you can do is start crying because I also make fun of your poor grammar. Boo freakin Hoo! Ha!
This is just so much bs. You took the 37mil people in CA, the 12% unemployment rate, and multiplied the two. Resulting in 4.5mil (you even cheated by rounding up from 4.44). You forgot that the 37 mil people of Cali includes about 25 mil who are not in the job force. It would be an easy mistake to make. Especially if one has no clue as to what they are talking about. Absolutely no clue whatsoever.
Oh come on. By 1986 Ronald Regan couldn’t even remember his last name due to Alzheimer`s. James Baker was running the country with help from George Shultz and Cap Weinberger. You probably did not realize this because you were sitting in the back of the classroom wearning a cone shaped hat, right?
So you are saying it would improve the free market to kick out the low cost providers to make way for those who are higher priced and less ambitious? Are you a communist, or just have no grasp whatsoever of the situation?
Finally, FINALLY, we agree on something. Now school is over, so take off that cone shaped hat. You just look silly.
If you do not like it that attitudes here in the USA are hardening against illegal aliens and their enablers----------perhaps you would be better off living in another country.
If you do not like it that attitudes here in the USA are hardening against illegal aliens and their enablers----------perhaps you would be better off living in another country.
I recognize the situation without sticking my head in the sand. And it works for me. It is those who spend all their time bellyaching who have the problems.
I recognize the situation without sticking my head in the sand. And it works for me. It is those who spend all their time bellyaching who have the problems.
I support Americans/green card holders who played it by the rules.
Do you??
Face it: you are the one bellyaching that attitudes are turning against amnesty for those illegal alien losers
Is it any question or surprise that the rich in America have been on a HUGE incline of wealth lately?
Have you seen the "curve" on this rocket ship? UNBELIEVABLE WEALTH! all during a time when the common American is getting his financial ass handed to him.
Do you really think that if Chinese illegals were here and willing to work for what they make in China $.80 per hour and willing to live with 8 families per household which they WOULD do, that this would somehow help America? Oh, and dont forget as they took away MILLIONS of jobs from AMERICANS AND ILLEGAL MEXICANS, they would be sending every EXTRA penny home! out of the USA. Now would you say the illegals lost their jobs because they were lazy? not willing to work for the Chinaman's wage?
Oh, and by the way its really good for the economy right? because now the PEOPLE WHO OWN THE CORPORATIONS have EVEN MORE MONEY than what they currently HAVE. Its a SHOP VACUUM FOLKS, it pays the wealthy and makes the middle class become unemployed. If corporations could hire people for less than a dollar per hour (and they do when they outsource your job) they will create a situation where 1 percent of the population holds 99% of the wealth. Guess where THAT leaves YOU?
Check this out gets really good after the first 15 sec
8%? I think it’s closer to 5%. NPR article Would it kill YOU to look up a statistic before you shoot off your keyboard?
Even at 5% of the workforce it is likely that most U.S. citizens enjoy the fruits of some illegal’s labor each and every day. Or do you go out of your way to avoid buildings/homes that were constructed by illegal aliens (as if you could possibly know this). Or eat food prepared by illegals, etc.? You probably enjoy the fruits of illegal alien labor all the time without even realizing it.
Next, YOU CONTRADICT YOUSELF IN THE SAME PARAGRAPH: First you say: THEN, a couple of lines below, you say: SO WHICH IS IT? Do you advocate “taking advantage” of illegals for a fraction of what they are worth, or do you advocate taking advantage of U.S. citizens for the same pittance?
Hey, maybe that's a good idea. What is your alma mater? I'll start there.
Ha! When I poke holes in your faulty logic and point out inconsistencies in your arguments all you can do is start crying because I also make fun of your poor grammar. Boo freakin Hoo! Ha!
This is just so much bs. You took the 37mil people in CA, the 12% unemployment rate, and multiplied the two. Resulting in 4.5mil (you even cheated by rounding up from 4.44). You forgot that the 37 mil people of Cali includes about 25 mil who are not in the job force. It would be an easy mistake to make. Especially if one has no clue as to what they are talking about. Absolutely no clue whatsoever.
Oh come on. By 1986 Ronald Regan couldn’t even remember his last name due to Alzheimer`s. James Baker was running the country with help from George Shultz and Cap Weinberger. You probably did not realize this because you were sitting in the back of the classroom wearning a cone shaped hat, right?
So you are saying it would improve the free market to kick out the low cost providers to make way for those who are higher priced and less ambitious? Are you a communist, or just have no grasp whatsoever of the situation?
Finally, FINALLY, we agree on something. Now school is over, so take off that cone shaped hat. You just look silly.
Actually, you're the one that's not coming off looking so hot.
Most folks on this forum know of my educational background. Yours seems somewhat iffy.
You have quite a bit to say, but you seem to be saying nothing intellectually tangible. Actually, you're quite good at it. You should continue to blather your nonsense and illegal alien apologist dogma. People like you are extremely good for our cause. You show the world just how self centered and lacking in any sort of ethical standards you truly are.
By the way, I don't give a rat's ass what you think of my grammar. I happen to know that my sentence structure was correct, but hey...I guess you should know better, considering you can't even correctly spell the last name of a man who was president of the United States for two terms
It's amazing to me that you, who claim to understand the idea of a free market as well as the capitalist system, can't seem to grasp the fact that losing 8% of the cheap labor work force and replacing it with a work force earning a fair market wage for their labor (and in doing so, injecting capital into the economy while halting the flow of millions of U.S. dollars leaving the country) would be good for the free market economy. Yeah, you get it all right.
I'm afraid that mathematical skills of your caliber wouldn't get you into my alma mater. I could go through the formula for calculating the unemployment figures in California, but you've already made it obvious that you don't have the goods to grasp the concept.
So please, continue on with your quest to educate us all regarding the plight of illegal immigrants and America's reliance upon them. I find your attempts to justify the unjustifiable pathetically humorous. I'm sure I'm not the only one.
Most folks on this forum know of my educational background. Yours seems somewhat iffy.
I am not impressed by any credentials you may have trotted out to your buddies--fake or real. I only consider the words you say. And I am not impressed by those either.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kele
By the way, I don't give a rat's ass what you think of my grammar. I happen to know that my sentence structure was correct, but hey...I guess you should know better, considering you can't even correctly spell the last name of a man who was president of the United States for two terms
Yes. I am a poor speller. Very poor.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kele
It's amazing to me that you, who claim to understand the idea of a free market as well as the capitalist system, can't seem to grasp the fact that losing 8% of the cheap labor work force and replacing it with a work force earning a fair market wage for their labor
Wouldn’t fewer constraints be good in a free market system? If people are willing to come to the U.S. and work for $7 per hour, or even $3 per hour, then that would be good for the market, right? Shouldn’t prices be determined by what people are willing to pay/receive in a free market system? You advocate removing those who are willing to work for the smallest wage—illegals—and replacing them with the bottom rung workers who are U.S. citizens. Have you ever taken a look at that bottom rung? Our nation would grind to a screeching halt if we depended upon their labors.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kele
replacing it with a work force earning a fair market wage for their labor (and in doing so, injecting capital into the economy while halting the flow of millions of U.S. dollars leaving the country) would be good for the free market economy. Yeah, you get it all right.
Sure, millions of dollars leave our borders each month. Millions and millions and millions. But in a way that is a good thing. The dollars crossing the Rio Grande are only pieces of paper. You can’t eat them or wear them. Meanwhile, each time a dollar bill is taken into Mexico all the dollar bills left here in the U.S. become seemingly more valuable. The biggest harm that can come from this is if the expatriate dollar bills someday come back to the U.S.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kele
I'm afraid that mathematical skills of your caliber wouldn't get you into my alma mater. I could go through the formula for calculating the unemployment figures in California, but you've already made it obvious that you don't have the goods to grasp the concept.
Wow. You made a simple math error, but are too stubborn to admit it. How could you ever be expected to understand anyone else's point of view.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kele
So please, continue on with your quest to educate us all regarding the plight of illegal immigrants and America's reliance upon them. I find your attempts to justify the unjustifiable pathetically humorous. I'm sure I'm not the only one.
The point of this whole thread—which started out in the California forum and was moved to this forum—is that California would be worse off if all illegals were sent packing. Whole industries in California would come to a grinding halt. I suspect the same could be said for some other states, at least to a lesser extent.
8%. So what. Are you able to comprehend the gist of that article? Or were you absent the day they taught reading comprehension at your high and mighty alma mater? Here is a quote from the article. Please have somebody explain it to you:
Quote:
The economic troubles are widening the gap between illegal immigrants and Americans as they navigate the job market. Many Americans who lost jobs are turning for help to the government’s unemployment safety net, with job assistance and unemployment insurance.
On the other hand the illegals don't leach off of our gov't during these hard times:
Quote:
But immigrants without legal status, by law, do not have access to it. Instead, as the recession deepens, illegal immigrants who have settled into American towns are ... clinging to low-wage jobs, often working more hours for less money, and taking whatever work they can find, no matter the conditions.
Last edited by monkey cabal; 10-09-2009 at 08:30 AM..
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Ouch x2
