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You skipped the rest (and possibly most pertinent parts) of my post, but that's OK. You didn't get the job. it's over, time to move on.
Ok, whatever. You win, I guess.
The point of my post wasn't really why they didn't want to pay me. It was more about the crap job they did getting back to me, the apparent poor internal communication which led me to waste a day in Cleveland, and the VP acting like a jag and taking a personal shot at me. I really wasn't intending to argue why I should have gotten what I wanted. If they weren't going to pay me there really isn't a point in being mad.
I'm starting to think, however, that sales and marketing really isn't a good environment for me. I have a hard time not taking stuff like this personally. I just don't like playing these negotiation games. I think I'm probably going to head back to school, either get an MPH or maybe try getting into physician assistant school again. Still plenty of BS, but it least it's BS I'm used to.
Getting the job of your dreams requires that you gain skills in and out of university...you've graduated with technical expertise at a substantial cost to yourself...you've also graduated with negotiation skills also at a substantial cost...sadly this is how life seems to be.
Without any guarantees when we invest our time, money, and energy into relationships, business opportunities, whatever, we lose unless there is a legal devise to protect us from the unscrupulous. I wish we didn't have to resort to such measures but there it is.
Without a signed, witnessed contract there is no recourse. Just don't go there if you aren't sure. Don't naively think the best of others who stand to gain a financial advantage in using you. The airfare is a case in point. If this company was sterling they should have booked the flight for you. At this point you may never receive diddly-squat.
The OP received the reimbursement check two days ago on Page 1.
I think it's ridiculous for hiring companies to ask what salary you want. If they have seen your resume, they know your background. The question is: What are they willing to pay YOU for YOUR skills and experience? They can certainly offer a range. They know the range.
Of course any candidate in his or her right mind is going to aim for the highest amount. That doesn't mean the company must offer it.
No candidate should be asked for a minute of their time unless it's perfectly clear what the job pays -- or at least some kind of idea of what the minimum would be.
It's none of their business what you made in earlier jobs. None whatsoever. It's none of their business what you currently make.
The only thing they need to know is whether you will accept the minimum of what they're offering.
If they don't say what the job is paying, they have told you nothing about the job.
Update: So, I found out who they hired over me through Linkedin. Couldn't help myself.
She has to be my mom's age (early to mid 50's maybe), with a resume obviously way more accomplished than I, in addition to a pretty extensive background in sales. Me, five years experience with only some sales support. We actually attended the same respiratory program, only about 34 years apart.
Now I'm wondering, how the hell did my resume make it through any sort of screening? There is obviously no comparison here between the two of us. I'm not ashamed to say she is insanely more qualified.
So, what exactly was the deal here? Was I their negotiating tool for this woman's services?
I'm really more confused than I ever was. The job posting is still there, so maybe everything is not finalized. I know they had said they were considering hiring two people for the Chicago region, but with the kind of training involved, I wouldn't see them hiring two for this region so close together.
Anyone want to help me out on this one? I'm kind of feeling like they never had any intention of hiring me. I wonder if they made her pay for airfare upfront?
Update: So, I found out who they hired over me through Linkedin. Couldn't help myself.
She has to be my mom's age (early to mid 50's maybe), with a resume obviously way more accomplished than I, in addition to a pretty extensive background in sales. Me, five years experience with only some sales support. We actually attended the same respiratory program, only about 34 years apart.
Now I'm wondering, how the hell did my resume make it through any sort of screening? There is obviously no comparison here between the two of us. I'm not ashamed to say she is insanely more qualified.
So, what exactly was the deal here? Was I their negotiating tool for this woman's services?
I'm really more confused than I ever was. The job posting is still there, so maybe everything is not finalized. I know they had said they were considering hiring two people for the Chicago region, but with the kind of training involved, I wouldn't see them hiring two for this region so close together.
Anyone want to help me out on this one? I'm kind of feeling like they never had any intention of hiring me. I wonder if they made her pay for airfare upfront?
I'm guessing you were 2nd place. It's not unusual for a company to have several finalists for a position, since they never know if their first choice will take the job until they sign on the dotted line.
Why would it confuse you that they were interviewing more than one person?
Now I'm wondering, how the hell did my resume make it through any sort of screening? There is obviously no comparison here between the two of us. I'm not ashamed to say she is insanely more qualified.
So, what exactly was the deal here? Was I their negotiating tool for this woman's services?
Now I'M wondering what the new hire's salary is! If they balked at paying you your asking salary and this woman is much more qualified... I'm sure she would be savvy enough to ask for even more.
Why would it confuse you that they were interviewing more than one person?
I'm not confused that they would interview more than one. It's just that looking at the qualifications, I'm really not even in this woman's league. It doesn't make sense I would make it this far. I'm sure there are a fair share of therapists who are strictly sales now. I just doubt there are many in my age group or with experience similar to mine.
I'm wondering if she was willing to go lower in with the intention of being strictly sales in a few years or less. Her kids are probably grown and either out of the house or don't require as much attention, could probably afford to take a lower salary for a while. I, on the other hand, was looking to get into a situation where my wife could work significantly less.
Kind of makes the VP more of a dick in my eyes for writing what he wrote.
OP, yeah you got screwed. I too would be livid in your situation. Even 70k sound quite low for the job description. Greedy bastards want a slave at their beckon call, not a professional.
I'm not confused that they would interview more than one. It's just that looking at the qualifications, I'm really not even in this woman's league. It doesn't make sense I would make it this far. I'm sure there are a fair share of therapists who are strictly sales now. I just doubt there are many in my age group or with experience similar to mine.
I'm wondering if she was willing to go lower in with the intention of being strictly sales in a few years or less. Her kids are probably grown and either out of the house or don't require as much attention, could probably afford to take a lower salary for a while. I, on the other hand, was looking to get into a situation where my wife could work significantly less.
Kind of makes the VP more of a dick in my eyes for writing what he wrote.
This is obviously all just one's opinion - but I guess you can look at it in two ways. 1 - why did they even bother with you and waste your time. Or 2 - take some satisfaction that given the vast difference in experiences, you still had something that made you competitive. In the end, hiring decisions are extremely subjective. So I would just move on.
As for the salary thing. She may have taken a lesser pay because she has no need to make more. In essence, she's done enough in her career that she now has the luxury of doing what she wants rather than doing the things to pad her resume. Or, maybe they ended up giving her what she asked for (which could be 2 or 3x what you wanted).
The latter may sting as they were not willing to negotiate with you. But that is just the way things go. Perhaps they felt that they didn't need to offer any more based on what you can bring to the table.
Finally, you need to let that back and forth with the VP go. Perhaps he is the biggest douche in the world.... or perhaps he took your inquiry the wrong way. In either case, it really serves no benefit for you at this point dwelling on it - does it? And this is all just wild speculation - but lets say you were really out of your league, but that VP liked you for some reason (you had potential), and decided to initially bat for you in hopes of giving you an opportunity. Then the next thing he knows - he hears that you were asking about salary rather than the job itself (of course, you didn't' start that conversation, but he may not have known that). Which really irked him. So in that sense, his response was based off of what he perceived. Just as your opinion of him is solely based on what you know. Who's right? Does it matter anymore?
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The education continues...
