Flew out to interview so they could reject me (IT job, employee, applying)
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I recently interviewed for a company that provides surgical implant to help recondition and strengthen the diaphragm. I was qualified for the position having the appropriate respiratory therapist license, education and experience (slightly overqualified for last two). The job would have consisted of assisting surgeons with implantation of the device, educating patient and hospital staff, assisting the sales team and attending trade shows, sales luncheons etc. The job would have required at least 60% travel, mostly in the Midwest region ( I live in Chicago). However, if needed, I would have to fill in for reps in other regions as well. I would have to do on-call, potentially work weekends and holidays, and possibly leave for a surgery within two days notice, possibly less. It was kind of a start-up company since the device was FDA approved only within the past several years. The staff consisted of about 24 people, management included.
I scored a initial screening interview with a employee whose job was similar to the one I was applying for and was moved on to a two hour Skype interview with the Senior VP of Marketing and Sales. This gentleman would have been my boss. That went well enough that I earned another Skype interview with the COO in Paris. The COO asked my desired salary. I told him I didn't have a whole lot experience negotiating salaries, but after doing some research and speaking with my contacts in the industry, I would prefer mid-70's. I joked that I hoped I wasn't embarrassing myself or insulting him. The request was about 20k/year higher than my current HOURLY (M-F, 8-4) full-time job. He told me not to worry, that I wouldn't be disqualified simply for the request.
The interview went well, and I was invited to fly to Cleveland to the corp headquarters to interview with management. Flyed out at my expense (they are supposed to reimburse me) I had a pretty good vibe and figured it was probably close to being in the bag at this point. My previous supervisor had also spoken over the phone with the COO for 40min that morning and gave me a great recommendation. I took PTO from my full time job and interviewed with several members of management. The interviews were a real rush job, considering I had taken a full day off work to participate.
The last person I interviewed with was again the VP of Marketing. He asked me a lot of repeat questions from our previous interview. Stressed the potentially heavy travel demands of the job, and how on some weeks I'd leave on Sunday night and not return home until Friday evening. I told him that was fine as long as I felt the compensation was fair. Finally, in the last minute of the interview, he asked me what I wanted salary-wise again. Also mentioning that there would be a possible 10% annual bonus attached. I reiterated what I told the COO and stated that I was pretty set on that amount. He acknowledged that, jotted something down and told me he was going to find another person for me to talk to.
I never saw that person. A manager who had been communicating with me to set up the previous interviews came out and told me that I was finished and that I could expect to hear back by the early the next week. I sent my thank you emails the following day.
One week past, I heard nothing. I emailed the Senior VP to ask if there were any updates. I got a two sentence fragment response saying the position was filled and good luck finding employment elsewhere.
I was pretty furious. I had made myself available to them for the past two months. Re-configuring my schedule and taking time from my full-time job for these people, and I can't even get a f**king phone call. I shot an email back saying that I thought that was an inconsiderate and unprofessional way to let me go. I was only one of maybe TWO other final candidates. It was nothing personal, just kind of politely expressed my dissatisfaction with the process.
He wrote back saying that an HR director, who I had never met or talked to, was supposed to call me back. He then gave me some "free advice" by telling me I should never ask my hiring manager for a $20k pay raise with bonus. That "turned him off" and "I blew my final interview".
I wrote back telling him that it would have been helpful to have known this two weeks earlier when I had told his boss before he invited me out for the interview OR after our final interview, instead making me wait out a week to pass the buck off to someone I had never interacted with to break the bad news. Again, nothing out of control or personal, but got my point across as professional as I could. I even stated that I thought they had an excellent product and was disappointed that I wouldn't be in their future plan. I probably burned my bridges there but they had no intention of ever calling me back if something had opened up.
Am I taking this too personally? Or is this guy just a total *******?
I feel like I was totally played here, and that they completely wasted my time. Not to mention, a high-level, experienced executive didn't have the balls to say to my face that they couldn't meet my demands.
I've searched the internet high and low and haven't seen any stories of a hiring manager taking offense to a salary request,that was made weeks ago, during the final minutes of an interview. I feel like my situation is pretty unique. Any insight?
Oh, and I also haven't received my expense check after one week. Never again will I make that mistake. I really look like a chump now.
I hope you enjoyed Cleveland at least! Did you know that legend has it that the Rapid Transit built from the airport to the East Side of town supposedly was built to whisk Rockefeller from his mansion to the airport quickly?
Sorry the negotiations didn't work out the way you wanted. I'm not familiar with your industry &/or the compensation package that would go with the type of position you applied for. This is from a hiring perspective & if I'm understanding the situation correctly:
Initially interviewed with a potential peer
Interviewed, via Skype, with Sr VP of M&S = potential Mgr
Interviewed, via Skype, with COO >>> your desired salary discussed
Flew to Cleveland from Chicago & in-person interviewed with Mgmt [panel?]
In-person follow-up/final interview with Sr VP of M&S >>> your desired salary indicated as set [= non-negotiable from how I read the circumstances?]
It wasn't a total waste of time, you had the opp to gain/enhance your interview/negotiation skills PLUS you rec'd feedback on why you didn't get the job [it could have been left @ 'the position has been filled, thanks for applying']. The people you interviewed with contributed their time also.
This is a start-up company with a staff of 24 people, based on this, is it possible that the [current] salary range might be lower than the industry standards that you researched; perhaps the 'set' base salary you requested was substantially higher than your 'peers' or even the Sr VP of M&S? The position probably had a salary range budgeted for & your request may have been outside the guidelines.
The Sr VP of M&S appears to be the final decision maker on who he wants on his team & apparently he was aware that you wanted a $20K increase from what you are currently making [how he knew is unclear]. It's true that @ the final interview he could have said 'buh bye' but I imagine he wanted an opp to discuss your skill set with the other interviewers & the cost-benefit of you being the candidate hired vs another candidate's skill set & his/her compensation requirements.
Unsure why the Sr VP would have been annoyed about the 10% bonus being mentioned since it was introduced by the COO [unless Sr VP's viewpoint = your wanting a ~40% increase ($20K/~$50K) PLUS bonus]?
I recognize that you wish to be compensated fairly but I seemed to have missed where the company indicated what they considered fair compensation <<< this is where the art of negotiation occurs & one 'sells' the benefits he/she is bringing to the table for a compensation package [i.e. stock options in a start-up can be lucrative & offset accepting a lower base salary than desired; bonus based on % of sales, if company has a good product/service, vs bonus based on base salary, etc...].
Contact HR about the status of your Expense Report [some companies do not process these on an as-received basis but on a scheduled timeframe which could be weekly, every other week or monthly]. Best Wishes for other employment opportunities.
Last edited by RespectMyAuthoritah; 03-14-2013 at 05:55 AM..
Personally - I think the biggest mistake was to "get into" it with the Sr. VP after the decision was made. No matter how "professional" you were, the fact is that from reading your side of the situation, it still sounded like you were bitter and trying to get the last word in. Not to say that isn't natural or warranted - but what did that gain you in the end? A potentially burned bridge....?
You said it was a start-up - having been in a few over a good part of my career, it wouldn't surprise me if they simply don't have a good communication process setup. That email to the HR director to send your "thanks, but no thanks" letter is probably still unread in her inbox. Is it tacky - sure. But was it purposely malicious? I doubt it. And its obviously something not a lot of organizations excel at based on many of the posts on CD. So try your best to just let it go.
What you went through to not get the job is not uncommon (aside from having to pay for your own airfare). The time and effort you spend is basically the "cost" of looking. You knew the risk was there...but you obviously felt that it was worth the potential gain. Not to sound cold - but its not like these people were out to get you. That said - you do need to keep contacting them about your reimbursement.
I recently interviewed for a company that provides surgical implant to help recondition and strengthen the diaphragm. I was qualified for the position having the appropriate respiratory therapist license, education and experience (slightly overqualified for last two). The job would have consisted of assisting surgeons with implantation of the device, educating patient and hospital staff, assisting the sales team and attending trade shows, sales luncheons etc. The job would have required at least 60% travel, mostly in the Midwest region ( I live in Chicago). However, if needed, I would have to fill in for reps in other regions as well. I would have to do on-call, potentially work weekends and holidays, and possibly leave for a surgery within two days notice, possibly less. It was kind of a start-up company since the device was FDA approved only within the past several years. The staff consisted of about 24 people, management included.
I scored a initial screening interview with a employee whose job was similar to the one I was applying for and was moved on to a two hour Skype interview with the Senior VP of Marketing and Sales. This gentleman would have been my boss. That went well enough that I earned another Skype interview with the COO in Paris. The COO asked my desired salary. I told him I didn't have a whole lot experience negotiating salaries, but after doing some research and speaking with my contacts in the industry, I would prefer mid-70's. I joked that I hoped I wasn't embarrassing myself or insulting him. The request was about 20k/year higher than my current HOURLY (M-F, 8-4) full-time job. He told me not to worry, that I wouldn't be disqualified simply for the request.
The interview went well, and I was invited to fly to Cleveland to the corp headquarters to interview with management. Flyed out at my expense (they are supposed to reimburse me) I had a pretty good vibe and figured it was probably close to being in the bag at this point. My previous supervisor had also spoken over the phone with the COO for 40min that morning and gave me a great recommendation. I took PTO from my full time job and interviewed with several members of management. The interviews were a real rush job, considering I had taken a full day off work to participate.
The last person I interviewed with was again the VP of Marketing. He asked me a lot of repeat questions from our previous interview. Stressed the potentially heavy travel demands of the job, and how on some weeks I'd leave on Sunday night and not return home until Friday evening. I told him that was fine as long as I felt the compensation was fair. Finally, in the last minute of the interview, he asked me what I wanted salary-wise again. Also mentioning that there would be a possible 10% annual bonus attached. I reiterated what I told the COO and stated that I was pretty set on that amount. He acknowledged that, jotted something down and told me he was going to find another person for me to talk to.
I never saw that person. A manager who had been communicating with me to set up the previous interviews came out and told me that I was finished and that I could expect to hear back by the early the next week. I sent my thank you emails the following day.
One week past, I heard nothing. I emailed the Senior VP to ask if there were any updates. I got a two sentence fragment response saying the position was filled and good luck finding employment elsewhere.
I was pretty furious. I had made myself available to them for the past two months. Re-configuring my schedule and taking time from my full-time job for these people, and I can't even get a f**king phone call. I shot an email back saying that I thought that was an inconsiderate and unprofessional way to let me go. I was only one of maybe TWO other final candidates. It was nothing personal, just kind of politely expressed my dissatisfaction with the process.
He wrote back saying that an HR director, who I had never met or talked to, was supposed to call me back. He then gave me some "free advice" by telling me I should never ask my hiring manager for a $20k pay raise with bonus. That "turned him off" and "I blew my final interview".
I wrote back telling him that it would have been helpful to have known this two weeks earlier when I had told his boss before he invited me out for the interview OR after our final interview, instead making me wait out a week to pass the buck off to someone I had never interacted with to break the bad news. Again, nothing out of control or personal, but got my point across as professional as I could. I even stated that I thought they had an excellent product and was disappointed that I wouldn't be in their future plan. I probably burned my bridges there but they had no intention of ever calling me back if something had opened up.
Am I taking this too personally? Or is this guy just a total *******?
I feel like I was totally played here, and that they completely wasted my time. Not to mention, a high-level, experienced executive didn't have the balls to say to my face that they couldn't meet my demands.
I've searched the internet high and low and haven't seen any stories of a hiring manager taking offense to a salary request,that was made weeks ago, during the final minutes of an interview. I feel like my situation is pretty unique. Any insight?
Oh, and I also haven't received my expense check after one week. Never again will I make that mistake. I really look like a chump now.
yes, you do. And so do many others when they are unable to recognise nonsense from a potential employer. The two hour skype interview should have been a red flag and flying at your own expense should have caused you to back off. Well...live and learn as we all do from everyone else's mistakes.
Best of luck.
Koale
[/u][/b]
yes, you do. And so do many others when they are unable to recognise nonsense from a potential employer. The two hour skype interview should have been a red flag and flying at your own expense should have caused you to back off. Well...live and learn as we all do from everyone else's mistakes.
Best of luck.
Koale
Did I miss something? Why was the Skype interview a red flag?
I just wish these companies would stop paying games and tell people up front what the salary will be. I feel bad for the OP. It really stinks to put in so much effort and not even get a courtesy call or explanation. This happened to me once. I applied an IT job and was asked to come down and take a skills test. I spent 2 hours testing, and aced it. They showed me around introducing me to employees and explaining operations. I thought I had nailed the job. I heard nothing back from them, not even an email.
These companies don't give a rip about people. They just want to hire someone for the lowest salary possible, apparently.
[/u][/b]
yes, you do. And so do many others when they are unable to recognise nonsense from a potential employer. The two hour skype interview should have been a red flag and flying at your own expense should have caused you to back off. Well...live and learn as we all do from everyone else's mistakes.
Best of luck.
Koale
Yep... like has been said, I wouldn't have written back after having received the news that you were passed over, but it sounds like you dodged a bullet here. Consider yourself wiser for the experience (and fortunate) and move on.
[/u][/b]
yes, you do. And so do many others when they are unable to recognise nonsense from a potential employer. The two hour skype interview should have been a red flag and flying at your own expense should have caused you to back off. Well...live and learn as we all do from everyone else's mistakes.
Best of luck.
Koale
I agree. I'd have passed on it shortly before I bought the ticket.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BLASTED
These companies don't give a rip about people. They just want to hire someone for the lowest salary possible, apparently.
That's it exactly.
Go ahead and interview for that $75k job... The company will get back to you after they interview the dozen unemployed people standing in line behind you willing to accept $50k.
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well...
