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Interesting responses. I've always read that you shouldn't get into discussing salary until you have the offer in hand. What does everyone think of that as a strategy?
That's the current theory, but it's all a game, and the hiring company usually has the upper hand. Yes, if they ask "what are you looking for", you counter with "what range are you offering" and often you will get some nebulous answer. So you cave.
Other times, in those &%$#! online applications, you can't submit your application without putting in either your current/past salaries, or your salary expectation. If your only contact with this company is this application, then you have to spill. I think that's why so many people recommend trying to get a job through contacts, so that you bypass applications and screening methods. THEN when you have an offer you can discuss salary.
Companies that ask for the candidate's current salary are asking for no other reason than to low ball an offer if they decide to present one. I've hired tons of people and don't care what the person is making; we have a salary line for the job and when we decide on someone, the salary is offered and it's up to the applicant to accept it or not.
Depending on the job, we might ask for a range that the person is looking for because it's no use wasting anyone's time if someone is looking for $80k and we're only able to offer $60k. It's pretty important to go into the interview knowing what the lowest salary you will accept is and include that in the range you present. We've had candidates that have given us ranges that were more than $10-15k above what we could offer at the time and when we removed them from consideration, we'd get emails and letters in the mail saying something to the effect that "I'm negotiable on salary so if what I told you is too high, please reconsider...." That doesn't fly.
I could tell you that they should have established a reasonable salary range before even starting the entire process, especially before you flying out there. I could say this probably happened because it is a small startup company with few standard procedures in place. But, I just had a recent experience with a huge well known Fortune 100 company. Everything was going well down to the verbal offer and background check being initiated. Then, a day later, I got a call saying they have no budget to hire me. Yes. You got screwed and it sucks.
i had a similar experience in that i had to pay a cab $80 to go to an interview that was late by 1 hour on the boss' part. when i did not get the job after waiting for an answer, i simply never wrote back. yes i was furious at that $80 loss. i had no work at that time and it was a lot of money to me. this was recent - august 2012.
remember that when you see behaviors that are selfish (fly out at your own expense), that is how they will treat you: "you are on your own buddy." i realize they said they would reimburse you but promises are always false imo. there was nothing in writing. look at every single behavior and judge your prospective employer. use that impression against the employer or for him or her. it's not always indicative of the entire company's morale and operations but on average it holds true.
$50k is a joke of a salary after all that travel and the fact that this company is very likely ripping off medicare with $200,000 surgeries. i have seen it happen in many medical offices. they are paying you pennies on the dollar and want you to be thankful for it too.
I am sure they are glad they didn't hire you after you flew off the handle with the emails. You should never ever ever do that. You SHOULD have thanked them for consideration and reiterated that you think you are a great fit and if the new person doesn't work out, that you would be honored to be reconsidered in the future.
But you flew off the handle and burned your bridge. Don't ever do that again. No matter what. EVER.
As far as pay, I don't know the actual pay rate for these duties. But my guess is you would be underpaid even at the salary you quoted. They are likely charging a massive rate for your services. Plus travel jobs like that SHOULD pay at least 20%-30% more than jobs that don't require travel. They were ripping you off and they were looking for someone to work very cheaply, is my guess.
However, you learned an important lesson here. Well, HOPEFULLY you learned the lesson. Don't ever shoot out emails when you are upset. Ever. Ever. Ever. You are better off not sending any email. this goes for when you are interviewing but also at work for ALL communication with everyone. Always.
Disagree. On one hand you are saying the employer is trying to screw her over by underpaying her even at her desired salary, and on the other you are saying treat that employer with gratitude and respect. Pansy-ass bull**** ass kissing like that is what is wrong the corporate world.
A 2 hour interview with just one guy? For a job that pays $50,000? What the heck did you talk about for that long?
Quote:
Originally Posted by lovetheduns
I think also-- is how the OP phrased the salary negotiations.
OP -- honestly you came off as unsure about YOUR worth and what the company actually should be paying.
This seemed like a pretty big jump for you if you were going from hourly to salary.
And negotiating by stating that you are not well versed in salary negotiations but you have been asking around, etc.. just comes off as ... hey I read in the US News and World Report that this job should be 100k so I want that.
First of all-- you NEVER just keep interviewing if you have no idea of the salary range. Unfortunately it sounds like in this situation you were ignorant of the process (ignorant in its definition not as a pejorative adjective) as was the company. I have yet to interview for ANY job in recent years where salary range was not asked by me or the company off of the bat.
If you are really asking for an almost 50% increase in salary alone and then bonus-- you have to have a compelling story. Why are you all of a sudden worth that money now when obviously you are willing to work for far less.
A lot of doublespeak here. So if she would have sounded more confident about her worth the company would have paid $20,000 more than they really wanted to pay? I'd say that a job's compensation - far from being discussed transparently and at the outset - is more typically mired in mystery and treated like a secret until they know they want you. The vibe I get is you work for passion and because you love your job, etc., etc., and the money? Don't even ask about that...who would leave a job to make more money at another when everyone knows you just want the job because you want to take on new challenges, blah, blah, blah?
Companies that ask for the candidate's current salary are asking for no other reason than to low ball an offer if they decide to present one. I've hired tons of people and don't care what the person is making; we have a salary line for the job and when we decide on someone, the salary is offered and it's up to the applicant to accept it or not.
Depending on the job, we might ask for a range that the person is looking for because it's no use wasting anyone's time if someone is looking for $80k and we're only able to offer $60k. It's pretty important to go into the interview knowing what the lowest salary you will accept is and include that in the range you present. We've had candidates that have given us ranges that were more than $10-15k above what we could offer at the time and when we removed them from consideration, we'd get emails and letters in the mail saying something to the effect that "I'm negotiable on salary so if what I told you is too high, please reconsider...." That doesn't fly.
Why doesn't it fly? Why not take them at face value? If your company is cloaking the salary range so job seekers don't know it upfront why should you care whether an applicant overestimates what the company is paying rather than underestimating it? Is correctly guessing what the "salary line" is going to say that important of a quality in potential applicants?
I've hired tons of people and don't care what the person is making; we have a salary line for the job and when we decide on someone, the salary is offered and it's up to the applicant to accept it or not.
I really wish companies would post salary ranges in their ads. Some do, and I skip the ones that are way above or way below my range, based on my skills and experience. I realize the higher-salaried positions might get flooded with applicants, but isn't that happening anyway?
What a crappy situation--I feel for you, OP. A few side thoughts from me... Nearly every job/salary expert out there advises not to talk salary until the job is offered. It's total bunk because most of us know it doesn't work that way in the real world. I hate when all the job help books and websites that are supposed to assist people in this process say this! It would be great if this really was the accepted protocol for both sides, but it doesn't work that way the majority of time. Yeah, it might work for someone who is personally referred to a position---as in nepotism situations, or the old boy network deals that go on in country clubs, fraternity alumnus groups, and the like. But for the plebians (sorry---but anyone earning $50-$70K/year is still in the "slave class" to corporations), they are looking for whomever will work for the least $$ and still squeak in with minimum qualifications. It happens every damn day all over the damn country.
Corporations only care about one thing, the bottom line. I really despise the deceiving "HR" moniker too. HR departments exist to keep salaries low. You didn't think they really care about the human beings there, did you? Why do you think compensation analysts typically work in the HR department? Everyone's been duped in to believing that HR is a people-oriented place. Trust me, it's not. They don't give a damn about the OP, his personal expenses, etc. Hell, they didn't even have the decency or professionalism to send a proper rejection letter. OP--you are better off elsewhere. Just consider yourself wiser for the wear. (Yeah, and keep bugging them for the expense reimbursement.)
Wow after reading this.........if it comes up maybe I should ask them to put in e-mail that they will reimburse in case I need to take them to small claims, but who is going to insist that their prospective employer, in this job market, do that and risk alienating them and lose the opp.
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