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I don't think anyone indicated the vaccine would prevent people from carrying the virus, nor did they claim it was 100% protection. But it sure is the better option.
Literally gave you three links a few pages back with claims by several authorities that they would (95%, 100%, whatever). Mandates were sold on this premise, which proved to be false. Now you continue to backpedal.
There’s a simple, basic proposition: If you’re vaccinated, you’re not going to be hospitalized, you’re not going to be in an ICU unit, and you’re not going to die.
...
And so, what I say to people who are worried about a new pandemic is: Get vaccinated. If you’re vaccinated, even if you do catch the “virus,” quote, unquote — like people talk about it in normal terms — you’re in overwhelm- — not many people do. If you do, you’re not likely to get sick. You’re probably going to be symptomless. You’re not going to be in a position where you — where your life is in danger.
All of this is false, as we now know. And you ask why I don't trust our "best and brightest" here in the US, lol.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodnight
It's neither a new studyor huge, already been studied in the US. You cherry picked from the study without reading the summary on the bottom of page 6. Also many disqualifiers and limitations mentioned on that same page if you bothered read, such as:
But you're off and running with your insanity claims. Why are you going to the UK to find a study when we have some best medical researchers in the world. Answer is that you thought it made your case but it does not.
So the bottom line is that myocarditis is more likely to occur from Covid infection but sure don't get the vaccine, that makes sense.
Because the UK has more honest and complete Covid numbers than we do. It's also the largest study of its kind, which is likely tied to a stronger central government and the NHS, as well as them lacking the revolving door relationship between regulators and Big Pharma that we have here.
In any event, I specifically referred to study's findings re: the risk to men under age 40:
Quote:
Despite more myocarditis events occurring in older persons, the risk following COVID-19
vaccination was largely restricted to younger males aged less than 40 years, where the risks of
myocarditis following vaccination and infection were similar. However, the notable exception
was that in younger males receiving a second dose of mRNA-1273 vaccine, the risk of
myocarditis was higher following vaccination than infection, with an additional 101 events
estimated following a second dose of mRNA-1273 vaccine compared to 7 events following a
positive SARS-CoV-2 test.
Ergo, the vaccines make far more sense for older people (who are in any event thousands of times more at risk than younger people) than younger people, and the younger they are, the less sense the vaccines make, period. It's a sliding scale of risk/reward, and one size does not fit all.
Literally gave you three links a few pages back with claims by several authorities that they would (95%, 100%, whatever). Mandates were sold on this premise, which proved to be false. Now you continue to backpedal.
All of this is false, as we now know. And you ask why I don't trust our "best and brightest" here in the US, lol.
I am sure that some made broad statements along the way and some misstatements but there are many, many experts that stated otherwise. Did you believe these claims and ignore the vast amount of statements by the drug companies, the CDC and the other medical experts, break throughs are not new.
Quote:
Because the UK has more honest and complete Covid numbers than we do. It's also the largest study of its kind, which is likely tied to a stronger central government and the NHS, as well as them lacking the revolving door relationship between regulators and Big Pharma that we have here.
In any event, I specifically referred to study's findings re: the risk to men under age 40:
Ergo, the vaccines make far more sense for older people (who are in any event thousands of times more at risk than younger people) than younger people, and the younger they are, the less sense the vaccines make, period. It's a sliding scale of risk/reward, and one size does not fit all.
So the UK is more honest. LOL
Both the Johns Hopkins study and the UK said the same thing, Covid is more likely to cause myocarditis than the vaccine. Additionally the part of the UK study you focused on indicated 100 in a million events for those under 40 and you are ignoring the disclaimer in the summary.
Both studies indicated the same conclusion in that Covid is more of a risk myocarditis, so if you believe the UK you should vaccinate.
“ During a nationwide vaccination campaign conducted from December 2020 through May 2021 involving more than 5 million residents, the Israeli Ministry of Health recorded 136 cases of definite or probable myocarditis that had occurred in temporal proximity to the receipt of two doses of the BNT162b2 (Pfizer) mRNA vaccine — a risk that was more than twice that among unvaccinated persons. This association was highest in young male recipients within the first week after the second dose. In our study, definite or probable cases of myocarditis among persons between the ages of 16 and 19 years within 21 days after the second vaccine dose occurred in approximately 1 of 6637 male recipients and in 1 of 99,853 female recipients.”
As for the UK analysis, in those younger than 40 given the Moderna vaccine, 15 per million had myocarditis versus 10 per million from a COVID infection. The risk from 2 doses of the Moderna vaccine is higher than the risk of COVID for those under 40 years old:
“ The risks are more evenly balanced in younger persons aged up to 40 years, where we estimated the excess in myocarditis events following SARS-CoV-2 infection to be 10 per million with the excess following a second dose of mRNA-1273 vaccine [Moderna] being 15 per million. Further research is required to understand why the risk of myocarditis seems to be higher following mRNA-1273 vaccine. Although the wider societal benefits of controlling the spread of virus to those who are more vulnerable are substantial, these data may help inform public health policy and the choice of vaccine offered to younger adults.”
Published: 14 December 2021; Risks of myocarditis, pericarditis, and cardiac arrhythmias associated with COVID-19 vaccination or SARS-CoV-2 infection
All this information is not new... there were many warnings about heart issues in young males early on... when my whole family got the 19 (the OG variant), my kids on pediatrician's orders all went for cardiac follow-ups after they recovered... this was in 2020. The earliest warnings about the vax we knew that there were heart complications, especially in young males... it's shocking that anyone is posting about this in 2022 like it's news.
The CDSers are so wrapped up in their anti-narrative and calling out "the narrative" that they never stop to think why a respiratory "flu-like virus" (their words, not mine) and the mRNA vax designed to trigger an immune response to prevent severe infection both cause immune related heart inflammation... but hey, that's not the narrative they want to sign onto, they just want to prove so-and-so wrong... that's what is really important. It's some politician, or the left, and the TDSers, etc... "the vax isn't 100%" so it's a failure... btw, these same people must think condoms are 100%.
The sheer fact that the vax has proven to illicit similar heart inflammation that is seen from the virus itself is a case that it works... maybe too well... so, take your own medicine and own the small percentage of people who are having life threatening heart reactions to the vax compared to those dying from the virus... and be sure to throw out the numbers of zeros to the right of the decimal... you know, because the shock value of ZOMG it DOUBLE doesn't hold water so much when it's .01 versus .1.... or so we are told so often by those who don't want anything done about the virus at all.
BTW, we all know that this isn't the last variant and choosing to ignore the virus because the current one is so weak in comparison isn't smart... those spending all the time proving the vax is BAD doesn't seem to want to think long term... just simply no vax and that's it... IMO we are going to need science to fight a manmade virus.
All this information is not new... there were many warnings about heart issues in young males early on... when my whole family got the 19 (the OG variant), my kids on pediatrician's orders all went for cardiac follow-ups after they recovered... this was in 2020. The earliest warnings about the vax we knew that there were heart complications, especially in young males... it's shocking that anyone is posting about this in 2022 like it's news.
The CDSers are so wrapped up in their anti-narrative and calling out "the narrative" that they never stop to think why a respiratory "flu-like virus" (their words, not mine) and the mRNA vax designed to trigger an immune response to prevent severe infection both cause immune related heart inflammation... but hey, that's not the narrative they want to sign onto, they just want to prove so-and-so wrong... that's what is really important. It's some politician, or the left, and the TDSers, etc... "the vax isn't 100%" so it's a failure... btw, these same people must think condoms are 100%.
The sheer fact that the vax has proven to illicit similar heart inflammation that is seen from the virus itself is a case that it works... maybe too well... so, take your own medicine and own the small percentage of people who are having life threatening heart reactions to the vax compared to those dying from the virus... and be sure to throw out the numbers of zeros to the right of the decimal... you know, because the shock value of ZOMG it DOUBLE doesn't hold water so much when it's .01 versus .1.... or so we are told so often by those who don't want anything done about the virus at all.
BTW, we all know that this isn't the last variant and choosing to ignore the virus because the current one is so weak in comparison isn't smart... those spending all the time proving the vax is BAD doesn't seem to want to think long term... just simply no vax and that's it... IMO we are going to need science to fight a manmade virus.
The problem is that the people who say "vax may be bad for male children" which actually has some validity, vs those who say "vax bad because Bill Gates wants to control your minds" are treated in the same manner by the holier than thou. Of course on social media, but even personally one of my siblings doesn't understand why I won't give the shot to my son who already had covid....no reason will suffice, it's jab or you are part of the unholy.
The problem is that the people who say "vax may be bad for male children" which actually has some validity, vs those who say "vax bad because Bill Gates wants to control your minds" are treated in the same manner by the holier than thou. Of course on social media, but even personally one of my siblings doesn't understand why I won't give the shot to my son who already had covid....no reason will suffice, it's jab or you are part of the unholy.
That’s a very good point. In the pre Covid-crazed days it would be perfectly rational for a 19-year old healthy male athlete to eyeball potential risk and forego a vax that an obese 80-year old might find necessary.
As a matter off fact, it wouldn’t be anyone’s business.
But those who want to pit Americans against each other (the media, certain pols, etc) are having a field day.
That’s a very good point. In the pre Covid-crazed days it would be perfectly rational for a 19-year old healthy male athlete to eyeball potential risk and forego a vax that an obese 80-year old might find necessary.
As a matter off fact, it wouldn’t be anyone’s business.
But those who want to pit Americans against each other (the media, certain pols, etc) are having a field day.
Unfortunately too many people who have found their new source of affirmation are all too willing to join the pitchfork brigade. You can sense an emptiness the second you start conversations on these type of subjects with these type of people...it's like a switch goes on where they've switched into "social media" mode and you are dealing with some sort of android.
The problem is that the people who say "vax may be bad for male children" which actually has some validity, vs those who say "vax bad because Bill Gates wants to control your minds" are treated in the same manner by the holier than thou. Of course on social media, but even personally one of my siblings doesn't understand why I won't give the shot to my son who already had covid....no reason will suffice, it's jab or you are part of the unholy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dman72
Unfortunately too many people who have found their new source of affirmation are all too willing to join the pitchfork brigade. You can sense an emptiness the second you start conversations on these type of subjects with these type of people...it's like a switch goes on where they've switched into "social media" mode and you are dealing with some sort of android.
Yes! Affirmation and "social media mode"!
You see it in reply after reply on these forums... constantly "proving" a point that in the end is trying to make it black or white about the virus and vax... which mirrors the political ideology discourse that we see happening... as soon as someone says "the left" or someone says "the right" you can throw their opinion and points in the garbage... they are just contributing to the mess... everyone needs to realize that the knife cuts both ways and "proving" the other side wrong is an exercise in futility... you don't see that ever acknowledge by the CDS crew here... they just keep on blasting away like there's only 2 stances possible.
Your choice to not vax your son is smart, so don't let anyone get you down about it... we all have our own circumstances.
The problem is that the people who say "vax may be bad for male children" which actually has some validity, vs those who say "vax bad because Bill Gates wants to control your minds" are treated in the same manner by the holier than thou. Of course on social media, but even personally one of my siblings doesn't understand why I won't give the shot to my son who already had covid....no reason will suffice, it's jab or you are part of the unholy.
Bill Gates wants me to tell you he is not trying to control your mind.
*Looks behind me.* What's that? I'm not supposed to say the first part? Ok.
Correction. Bill Gates is not trying to control your mind.
Unfortunately too many people who have found their new source of affirmation are all too willing to join the pitchfork brigade. You can sense an emptiness the second you start conversations on these type of subjects with these type of people...it's like a switch goes on where they've switched into "social media" mode and you are dealing with some sort of android.
The supposed "anti-vaxxers" (the vast majority of whom are simply anti-mandate) have been right about a majority of things, even before TEH SCIENCE! proved them right. We're seeing a dramatic backpedal by a portion of the neurotics on things such as lockdowns, the efficacy of the vaccines, vaxx passports, masks, treatments, etc., in much the same way that Iraq/Afghanistan war hawks later claimed that they didn't REALLY think Saddam had WMDs. I actually take this as an encouraging sign that things are simmering down. But we won't let them get away with wiping their hands clean of the mess created by their incompetence.
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