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I'm sorry, but these Ivy League school percentage arguments make me want to puke. Are people here saying that teachers should be paid more if their students go to Ivy League schools in higher percentages than other high schools?
This is laughable for a number of reasons:
1. The entire student body should be judged and not just those going to Ivy League schools.
2. Ivy Leagues aren't the be all and end all. There are plenty of other top notch schools outside of this club.
3. Teachers only do so much. Stop kidding yourself otherwise. It is the parents and the socio-economic stability that contributes to a child's performance and success more than anything else. Send those same teachers to Elmont and let's see what they can do.
4. Parents of students in districts such as E. Williston have access to outside resources that many other parents can't afford. Their kids get the best outside tutoring and they even have Ivy League "admissions coaches". Check this out..its no joke: Home
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Those East Williston Salaries are a joke. Think it doesn't involve you because you don't live in EW? Think again. Arbitrators, negotiators, unions, etc. will look at nearby districts when they decide on raises in yours. In fact, some districts like Roslyn have clauses that tie their compensation to others on LI. This fight involves all districts on the Island.
I could not agree more, azz. Not trying to take away anything from these teachers' ability, but I think the performance of the students at wealthy vs. poor areas on LI has basically everything to do with socioeconomic background. That's not a dig at East Williston's staff, just saying that I think the poorer school district teachers are very qualified as well....probably just as much so. For instance, I think if you swapped ALL the teachers from Roosevelt and East Williston, both districts would end up performing about the same.
I dated a teacher for a long time, and knowing her experience trying to get a job out of college, I feel pretty confident saying it's much more "who you know" than what your qualifications are that determines where you end up. She was looking at either NYC or Freeport until she had a neighbor call in some favors and ended up at one of Suffolk's BEST districts, without even having a Masters yet.
If the residents of the East Williston SD wanted to shovel tons of money into their teachers pockets than so-be-it....but as you and I_Love_LI_but have so astutely pointed out, we all know that's not the way contract negotiations go in New York and if one district is getting paid this well, most others surely won't be far behind.
I also agree that $90k is still a lot of money, especially when you consider the LAVISH, guaranteed benefits that accompany it. If you're making $90k in the private sector on LI, you're spending a hell of a lot more of that money on healthcare and retirement.
This thread got kinda out of hand from when I first replied, but I don't wanna give off the impression that I think teachers should be making chump change either. In fact, I think the biggest cuts that need to be made in schools don't even have anything to do with them. If it were up to me, the administrative layer of each district in Nassau and Suffolk could be eliminated completely and rolled into one county-wide organization. Keep the districts and schools what they are, just trim the fat. NYC gets by with one superintendent and they have hundreds of thousands more students. If we did that, scaled back the benefits and maybe cut salary across the board by 5% it would yield an enormous savings and teaching on LI would still be a very lucrative, desirable profession that attracts the best of the best.
This thread got kinda out of hand from when I first replied, but I don't wanna give off the impression that I think teachers should be making chump change either. In fact, I think the biggest cuts that need to be made in schools don't even have anything to do with them. If it were up to me, the administrative layer of each district in Nassau and Suffolk could be eliminated completely and rolled into one county-wide organization. Keep the districts and schools what they are, just trim the fat. NYC gets by with one superintendent and they have hundreds of thousands more students. If we did that, scaled back the benefits and maybe cut salary across the board by 5% it would yield an enormous savings and teaching on LI would still be a very lucrative, desirable profession that attracts the best of the best.
Make sense to anybody else?
Makes sense to me too.
I would probably not reduce salary or benefits. I would prefer to get rid of the pension system and put them on 401(k)s like everybody else (and that includes the entire NYS retirement system, not just teachers by any means) and also get rid of the benefits package after retirement and have them use Medicare like everyone else has to.
In addition to the outrageous salaries. The East Williston Teachers Contract (also available on the same web site) indicates the following sweetheart bennies!
182 teaching days
35 hour weeks (Includes lunch)
22.5 maximum teaching hrs per week if teacher assigned to K to 4th grade
20.25 maximum teaching hrs per week if teacher assigned to 5th to 7th grade
16.66 or 18.75 maximum teaching hrs per week if teacher assigned to 8th to 12grade
UNLIMITED SICK LEAVE!
2 Personal leave days
5 days excusal for any death in teachers family
4 emergency excusals
3 family Illness excusals days
20 days excusal if teacher adopts a child
Do you have sons or daughters at these schools? I am not ashamed to admit that I am financially fortunate, and I thank God everyday for that. However, I have a daughter who attends Wheatley, and I firmly believe the teachers get paid what they deserve. Although this might be sickening to some, it's the truth: we can afford to pay these taxes (my property taxes alone are $36,000 a year), and I would say 80% of my neighbors or more are fine with the school districts that we are sending our kids to. If you live in the area and are truly unhappy with the taxes you are paying, then move out. Otherwise, you're all putting words into the mouths of taxpayers who are actually helping to pay for these teachers and are fine with it.
I've posted a few posts on this forum, and I have said before that I am a NYC teacher. I did a number of other jobs in investment banking and finance in the past, and although I do not have to work anymore, I continue to do so because I love it, and I do it at way less pay than the East Williston School Teachers. The only thing we can really complain about is that the East Williston School Teachers get paid more than other school teachers even though they are doing the same exact job. So yes, the teachers who work there are either extremely lucky or 'know someone.' Do I think they are overpaid? I really don't. At the end of the day, we have a great school system, and I'm not complaining. Long Island is blessed with some of the best schools in the country ( and don't give me rubbish with the US News reports because they are bogus ), and for those of us who are fortunate enough to live in an area with a great school district, we should be happy that we are able to send our sons and daughters to these amazing public schools.
Do you have sons or daughters at these schools? I am not ashamed to admit that I am financially fortunate, and I thank God everyday for that. However, I have a daughter who attends Wheatley, and I firmly believe the teachers get paid what they deserve. Although this might be sickening to some, it's the truth: we can afford to pay these taxes (my property taxes alone are $36,000 a year), and I would say 80% of my neighbors or more are fine with the school districts that we are sending our kids to. If you live in the area and are truly unhappy with the taxes you are paying, then move out. Otherwise, you're all putting words into the mouths of taxpayers who are actually helping to pay for these teachers and are fine with it.
I've posted a few posts on this forum, and I have said before that I am a NYC teacher. I did a number of other jobs in investment banking and finance in the past, and although I do not have to work anymore, I continue to do so because I love it, and I do it at way less pay than the East Williston School Teachers. The only thing we can really complain about is that the East Williston School Teachers get paid more than other school teachers even though they are doing the same exact job. So yes, the teachers who work there are either extremely lucky or 'know someone.' Do I think they are overpaid? I really don't. At the end of the day, we have a great school system, and I'm not complaining. Long Island is blessed with some of the best schools in the country ( and don't give me rubbish with the US News reports because they are bogus ), and for those of us who are fortunate enough to live in an area with a great school district, we should be happy that we are able to send our sons and daughters to these amazing public schools.
Like a few other people have said, if the residents of East Williston SD don't mind paying extra that's great - but since contracts everywhere else are negotiated and settled based on what teachers are earning at other districts, it affects everyone....just not directly.
I don't think anybody (who doesn't live in East Williston SD) would really care what the teachers are getting paid there otherwise.
I can understand that - I just don't know if there is any solution to the problem. I don't believe that having a single contract like the 5 boroughs of NYC is the answer. I am also not a proponent for salaries based on student performance because there are simply too many factors at play.
90K for 9 months worth of work is a "sweet deal". 90K for a guaranteed lifetime "tenured" job is a platinum benefit. For such a "high" performing school district, why are only 20% of the graduates attending Ivy league schools? From a statistics point of view, I would feel a high rate of "confidence" give or take one degree if 80% of graduates were attending Ivy league schools. How does E. Williston schools spin it "If Janey attends our schools, there's a 20% chance she'll attend an Ivy league school"? I think if the tagline read "4 out of 5 are accepted and attend Ivy League schools" then yes, high property values and teacher salaries are justified, otherwise, no dice.
Your on to something.....80% of the people can't afford to send kids to expensive colleges. How many don't bother applying because they can't afford it.
Last edited by Kbinspections; 03-26-2010 at 06:49 AM..
This number does not include unemployment. Each union has a set amount in their employee contract they pay into incase of unemployment, disability, etc.
The top workers do not get unemployed.
I've seen a few union guys (lower on the totem pole in electrical & steel) who've sat out weeks during the slow seasons (furloughs collecting unemployment) so the 'top workers' can remain busy.
Was the number you had given earlier indicative of what a top worker in his class would make?
These are the things you pay for in an expensive school (be it public or private), a chance for success, or a chance to connect with others to succeed. I know dozens of parents who especially send their girls off to Yale or Stanford hoping they'll meet a to-be-rich husband.
The infamous M.R.S. degree.
Hard to believe in this day and age that a parent could think so little of their daughter's own capabilities -- especially parents who have the means (and most likely the education which created the means) to pay for Yale, Stanford, et.al.
Interesting read. Superintendent Concludes 2010-11 Budget Presentations . Note the statement from a Garden city parent saying "Increase academic programs, I do not mind paying more taxes for increased programs!". Many people in the upper-middle class and rich communities have similar thinking - give the best to the kids, i will pay more.
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