Maine's new Marijuana law (Winthrop: go bankrupt, live in, costs)

[Zymer]

Originally Posted by Submariner

To buy a firearm from a dealer anywhere in the USA you must fill-out a F-4473. If you swear that you do not use marijuana, and they find that you do, then you have committed a felony.

Actually, the question asks if one is an 'illegal' user. This, in essence, requires the buyer to render an opinion on the legality of his/her use. If the use is legal in one's home state where the purchase is being made, then, given that the legislators have determined that the use is legal, it is certainly a valid argument that one is relying on the opinion of those legislators and can honestly answer the question "No". If one believes that the answer he is giving is true, then he is not guilty of perjury.

A charge of perjury is based on an individual intentionally and willfully making a false statement. If one believes, in his opinion, that the statement is true, then even if it is later determined that the answer was incorrect, the elements of being 'willful' and 'intentional' are not satisfied.

A layman is not a legal professional and certainly cannot be expected to be an expert on legal matters. If legal professionals in state and federal governments are at odds, then how can the layman be held to a higher standard? If the layman chooses to follow the laws of his state and believes that his use is legal, based on the opinion of his state legislators, then his answering "No" is not an act of perjury.

I'm not a lawyer, but I've played one in court (and won, several times***). The above should not be construed as legal advice from a qualified legal professional...it is, however, a well-reasoned argument and I should expect that if it were argued in court (by a competent, licensed lawyer) that a judge would be hard-pressed to render a verdict of one being guilty of perjury, which is the threat of Form 4473, as the prosecutor would have to prove that the defendant made a *willful* and *intentional* false statement. The fact that the state law says his use is legal presents sufficient doubt that would make a finding of guilty "beyond a reasonable doubt" unfeasible.

***(My record in legal proceedings argued is currently somewhere in the neighborhood of 13 wins, one draw, one loss.)

[Submariner]

Originally Posted by Zymer

Actually, the question asks if one is an 'illegal' user. This, in essence, requires the buyer to render an opinion on the legality of his/her use.

The next sentence printed on the form, explains that marijuana is illegal by Federal law regardless of state laws.

[Zymer]

Originally Posted by Submariner

The next sentence printed on the form, explains that marijuana is illegal by Federal law regardless of state laws.

Oops. Did I miss that? Now I'll have to check, I have a copy of it somewhere...

Edit:

Ah, I see, a new version of the form was just released, and becomes effective on the 16th of next January.

Disregard previous post. Dang it. I'd say something...a lot of things...worse, but that would get me banned. I don't smoke pot, so it really doesn't affect me...but I think it is stupid and unfair...

[Submariner]

The new F-4473 arrived in FFL mailboxes last week.

[kevin5098]

Originally Posted by Submariner

The Federal form that you are required to fill-out and sign in the USA specifically asks if you use marijuana. The ATF just re-worded form F-4473 to clarify that regardless of state laws about recreational or medical use of marijuana, it is still a federal crime.

To buy a firearm from a dealer anywhere in the USA you must fill-out a F-4473. If you swear that you do not use marijuana, and they find that you do, then you have committed a felony.

The law (18 USC 922) applies not only to firearms purchases but to firearms in one's current possession. If you are a gun owner and decide to become a cannabis user, you will be committing a crime carrying a penalty of $250,000 fine, 10 years imprisonment, or both.

[inthetrees]

Originally Posted by kevin5098

The law (18 USC 922) applies not only to firearms purchases but to firearms in one's current possession. If you are a gun owner and decide to become a cannabis user, you will be committing a crime carrying a penalty of $250,000 fine, 10 years imprisonment, or both.

This is only if you are charged federally. Unless you do something pretty serious you are not charged with a federal crime. Granted this could change in the next few years.

No state, city or county LEO are charging people with federal crimes in Maine for possessing a gun and some cannabis, even if they have plants and no medical card.

They do get a Class C Felony though, if the gun was loaded and easily accessible when arrested.

edit: I should mention if someone does have more than 99 plants, they could be charged with a federal marijuana crime. This is pretty rare though. In general the federal agencies do not care about small time marijuana users and growers, especially if they are within their state limits and have the proper documents.

[Kiwiluver]

I don't smoke pot anymore, I quit in the early 1970's when I grew up (quit alcohol also). Because I made that choice does not mean I hold others to that standard. I have oft thought it ludicrous to incarcerate people for recreational use. I applaud the passage of this law. What someone does in the privacy of their environ is of no concern of mine. I put a uniform on once upon a time so folks could enjoy freedoms. I am glad to see some added in the time of individual rights rapid demise. The people have spoken.

[kevin5098]

Originally Posted by inthetrees

This is only if you are charged federally. Unless you do something pretty serious you are not charged with a federal crime. Granted this could change in the next few years.

No state, city or county LEO are charging people with federal crimes in Maine for possessing a gun and some cannabis, even if they have plants and no medical card.

They do get a Class C Felony though, if the gun was loaded and easily accessible when arrested.

edit: I should mention if someone does have more than 99 plants, they could be charged with a federal marijuana crime. This is pretty rare though. In general the federal agencies do not care about small time marijuana users and growers, especially if they are within their state limits and have the proper documents.

You are committing a crime whether you are charged or not. Personally, I'm hoping the Feds change the law to be consistent with states that are legalizing medical and/or recreational use. I'm not a cannabis user, but don't see why it should interfere with 2A rights.

[UpTheCreek]

Originally Posted by inthetrees

This is only if you are charged federally. Unless you do something pretty serious you are not charged with a federal crime. Granted this could change in the next few years.

No state, city or county LEO are charging people with federal crimes in Maine for possessing a gun and some cannabis, even if they have plants and no medical card.

"Oh no, Officer, some guy on an internet forum said that no cops are charging people with a federal crime here in Maine for this! No, really, I can give you the link if you want!"

Not intending to slam you, I think you're probably correct that it's not the norm. But folks, you CAN be charged with a federal FELONY and that's no joke. This isn't the same as removing the tag off your mattress. Please be smart and don't get caught having one along with the other.

[TheKezarWoodsman]

Originally Posted by Submariner

The Federal form that you are required to fill-out and sign in the USA specifically asks if you use marijuana. The ATF just re-worded form F-4473 to clarify that regardless of state laws about recreational or medical use of marijuana, it is still a federal crime.

To buy a firearm from a dealer anywhere in the USA you must fill-out a F-4473. If you swear that you do not use marijuana, and they find that you do, then you have committed a felony.

Im also assuming that at this point, you would not just be charged with the felony for lying on the f-4473, but you would most likely be charged with MJ laws on the federal level. If said person did not care about MJ, and they realized you were lying they would probally let it pass, but if they were against MJ, or a stickler for the rules, i can gaurentee you that they would go for all the possible charges.

You can even be executed if caught leading a large scale operation, although no true backyard doper (pun intended), will ever reach the needed amounts. Its something like a few million dollars, or a couple thousand pounds of it per year.


Also you can remove a matress tag, but only (and only if), you are the consumer. After doing so you cant resell it.