Coronavirus in Massachusetts (restaurants, gyms, versus)

[OutdoorLover]

Originally Posted by WestieWhitie

I’ll take death over bill gates 5g microchips any day!

*cough* *wheeze* *beeeeeeeeep*

LOL - yep, that seems to be the attitude from the rubber room

[bostongymjunkie]

Originally Posted by WestieWhitie

I’ll take death over bill gates 5g microchips any day!

*cough* *wheeze* *beeeeeeeeep*

If you want to set it up in those simple terms, yeah then there is the "I'd rather take death, infringe on the rights of others and crash the world economy than get my lazy butt off the sofa, take off the extra mega pounds on my carcass, lower my alcohol use, and take control of my own health" crowd. Merely taking a shot or a pill won't solve the problem but it sure makes some people *feel* better and that now apparently passes for logic and science. There's no shot or pill yet for fat lazy and entitled so I guess we just wait around for more deaths like we waited around for a vaccine.

[mdovell]

Originally Posted by bostongymjunkie

I've already alluded to many more that you've conveniently chosen to ignore, just like you ignore the focused protection and risk reduction methods which have been successfully used in Scandinavian countries and even in states within this one which have led to lower age adjusted mortality rates. Either that or you simply don't read, or at least read anything outside your far left corporatist echo chamber. I'm not even convinced you understand what risk management is about and I certainly don't understand why you insist on obstinately defending the failed policies of the federal response. I seem to recall quite a bit of criticism from you regarding the response in 2020 and now everything is wonderful even though it's the same people doing the same things and there have been exponentially more deaths in 2021 than 2020. It certainly doesn't speak well to your credibility, but I could say that about most comments you make here. And if you really think that the vaccine and masks are any semblance of a replacement for a strong immune system and that encouraging people to get fatter and fatter is a good policy going forward, then I think that says about all that's needed. How sad.

I don't think you actually understand what you saying. If you take a look at when the SARS outbreak happened around 2002 they continued to wear masks even after that pandemic was over. And if you look at 1918 it clearly had masks and vaccinations. You can't argue with us that somehow we shouldn't be using these things. I think that what you're trying to infer that obesity kills more people which is correct but that's a completely separate issue.

If we really want to go Whole Hog on everything healthy then we would simply adopt the 30 or 25 year old LDS study by UCLA. Become a vegetarian, don't smoke, rarely drink, exercise.

I wouldn't necessarily say things are entitled but we're talkin about the baby boomer generation going forward. Things like no fault divorce, microwaves, on demand TV networks, Broadband, wireless networks, everything is consistently been made to be better cheaper and faster that's what we've been dealing with since about the 1950s onward. If you want to take some sort of primitivist John Zarzen mentality that rejects even the cultivation of Agriculture and domestication of animals by all means do so but that goes down the line of the Unabomber.

When it comes down to what risk management can be a number of things. The fact of the matter is you have to realize that if you accidentally expose somebody to any form of a disease you can be held legally liable for it. People have been sued that have AIDS and had sex with people and didn't tell him that. School districts are being sued for covid exposures for not testing or having mask mandates. Where I live occasionally I see signs about "unmasking our kids" alright fine I can be for that but how much higher do we want our taxes to go to pay for the litigation for exposure?

The United States didn't exactly have that much in the way of a national lockdown it was largely met up to the states and even then there were many things that did not shut down at all like Manufacturing and the trades. Administrative Professionals largely moved online so I have to ask what jobs shut down?

You talk about Scandinavian countries as if they did something correct but would you fail to point out is that nearly half of their population lives alone. There are already socially distanced to begin with!
https://ourworldindata.org/living-alone

It would take decades if not generations to build that amount of housing per capita to even begin to get close to that percentage. Also remember is that in many respects Scandinavian countries are monocultures you looking at a much lower amount of variance in terms of genetic data so of course if people have roughly the same DNA they're going to be easier to have form of immunity. When you have a variance that is through immigration which has historically happened in the United States and in much of the Americas it's going to be harder to establish that. The only public good we have to remedy that is things like vaccination of which you belittle which makes a little sense as a public good vs what exactly?

What do you think is faster to develop a vaccine or to build tens upon tens of millions of homes across the United States to the point where light Scandinavian countries the majority of people would be able to live alone? I highly doubt a vaccine will cost six figures per person it doesn't work out that way.

[htfdcolt]

Originally Posted by bostongymjunkie

I've already alluded to many more that you've conveniently chosen to ignore, just like you ignore the focused protection and risk reduction methods which have been successfully used in Scandinavian countries and even in states within this one which have led to lower age adjusted mortality rates. Either that or you simply don't read, or at least read anything outside your far left corporatist echo chamber. I'm not even convinced you understand what risk management is about and I certainly don't understand why you insist on obstinately defending the failed policies of the federal response. I seem to recall quite a bit of criticism from you regarding the response in 2020 and now everything is wonderful even though it's the same people doing the same things and there have been exponentially more deaths in 2021 than 2020. It certainly doesn't speak well to your credibility, but I could say that about most comments you make here. And if you really think that the vaccine and masks are any semblance of a replacement for a strong immune system and that encouraging people to get fatter and fatter is a good policy going forward, then I think that says about all that's needed. How sad.

Man, are you mistaken. Same people doing the same things? The federal response in 2020 was to deny there was a crisis, then obstruct, then openly flout public health guidance by chastising masking and social distancing. No vaccines at the time, and sane places like Massachusetts still had restrictions in place. A year later? 70% of the population vaccinated, and we're in a *much* better spot by all measures.

Let's assume for a minute that your "get into shape" strategy to fight off Covid was sound. How on earth would you get an entire population to follow that strategy on such a short time scale? It's delusional to think otherwise, and honestly, it's a copout for doing nothing. Which was the intent all along--no restrictions, just a free-for-all, let the virus run rampant. This is similar to the logic used by the anti-gun control folks when they say "focus on mental illness".

[redplum33]

Originally Posted by htfdcolt

Let's assume for a minute that your "get into shape" strategy to fight off Covid was sound. How on earth would you get an entire population to follow that strategy on such a short time scale? It's delusional to think otherwise, and honestly, it's a copout for doing nothing. Which was the intent all along--no restrictions, just a free-for-all, let the virus run rampant.

Indeed.

[tribecavsbrowns]

Originally Posted by htfdcolt

Man, are you mistaken. Same people doing the same things? The federal response in 2020 was to deny there was a crisis, then obstruct, then openly flout public health guidance by chastising masking and social distancing. No vaccines at the time, and sane places like Massachusetts still had restrictions in place. A year later? 70% of the population vaccinated, and we're in a *much* better spot by all measures.

Let's assume for a minute that your "get into shape" strategy to fight off Covid was sound. How on earth would you get an entire population to follow that strategy on such a short time scale? It's delusional to think otherwise, and honestly, it's a copout for doing nothing. Which was the intent all along--no restrictions, just a free-for-all, let the virus run rampant. This is similar to the logic used by the anti-gun control folks when they say "focus on mental illness".

7-day average of positive tests reported per day (i.e., "cases") in Massachusetts:
December 13, 2020: 4,819
December 13, 2021: 4,828

So I guess you're not "in a much better spot by all measures."

[htfdcolt]

Originally Posted by tribecavsbrowns

7-day average of positive tests reported per day (i.e., "cases") in Massachusetts:
December 13, 2020: 4,819
December 13, 2021: 4,828

So I guess you're not "in a much better spot by all measures."

Case numbers are almost irrelevant at this point. Hospitalizations and deaths are a lot lower. And consider that a year ago, bars were closed in Massachusetts.

[lrfox]

Originally Posted by htfdcolt

Case numbers are almost irrelevant at this point. Hospitalizations and deaths are a lot lower. And consider that a year ago, bars were closed in Massachusetts.

Not only that, but the severe cases/deaths are disproportionately impacting the unvaccinated. On December 14, 2021 if you are vaccinated and boosted, you're in a pretty good spot compared to December 14, 2020.

[htfdcolt]

Originally Posted by lrfox

Not only that, but the severe cases/deaths are disproportionately impacting the unvaccinated. On December 14, 2021 if you are vaccinated and boosted, you're in a pretty good spot compared to December 14, 2020.

Precisely what Gov. Baker was saying yesterday.

[tribecavsbrowns]

Originally Posted by htfdcolt

Case numbers are almost irrelevant at this point. Hospitalizations and deaths are a lot lower. And consider that a year ago, bars were closed in Massachusetts.

You said "by all measures."

What's wild is it's totally an unforced error on your part. Of course you're better off a year later, as are the other 49 states. Because we've all learned to live with Covid to some degree. But that's not good enough for you, because you're weaving a myth where these mRNA shots stopped the pandemic dead in its tracks in places where people were compliant and an angry virus continued to smite people in the places where they weren't. The vast majority of the country knows this is complete fantasy, yet you persist.

Since you're doing myth-making and not truth-seeking, of course you're going to ignore/dismiss objective data unless you can weave it into the myth. So of course you're going to scoff at data (flawed as it is, but it's what we have) that suggests that your state has practically the same level of virus transmission with 88% of people having taken a shot as it did with no one having taken a shot.