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I recall the advice being at the time keep 6' of distance and when you can't mask. Every protest I went to had nearly 100% masking compliance and people handing out free masks to people arriving without them.
I recall much stink being made both in the media and on this forum about public gatherings indoors AND outdoors, with the exception of those protests. I have also seen plenty of video footage showing just the opposite of what you claim. NO masking, no distancing.
Location: RI, MA, VT, WI, IL, CA, IN (that one sucked), KY
41,937 posts, read 36,948,491 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bostongymjunkie
I recall much stink being made both in the media and on this forum about public gatherings indoors AND outdoors, with the exception of those protests. I have also seen plenty of video footage showing just the opposite of what you claim. NO masking, no distancing.
I try not to rely on posted videos, they can be and are shown to show what the posters want them to. Heck, a lot of people viewing selectively edited videos that spliced unrelated situations were led to believe the protests were all about violence and looting, i.e. they were purposely mislead.
I'm relying on first hand experiences having gone to several protests. Of course, those protests were also about life and death, not getting together for frivolity.
I try not to rely on posted videos, they can be and are shown to show what the posters want them to.
I'm relying on first hand experiences having gone to several protests. Of course, those protests were also about life and death, not getting together for frivolity.
But if it were a video showing what appears to be police brutality I think your response would be different. I've seen a ton of video footage directly by people at the protests nationwide, not media. In contrast you're talking about a few protests. I don't see either as solid proof of anything but it's quite apparent that there was quite a bit of non compliance with masks and social distancing and the "medical professional" mixed messages are my issue. The existence of the article supports this. Example, does this photo look like social distancing? And I see a lot of masks and a lot of bare faces. https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/05/healt...rnd/index.html
The life and death thing is a red herring. You didn't save any lives, in fact some of the protests resulted in dozens of dead.
Last edited by bostongymjunkie; 12-12-2021 at 02:47 PM..
Location: RI, MA, VT, WI, IL, CA, IN (that one sucked), KY
41,937 posts, read 36,948,491 times
Reputation: 40635
Quote:
Originally Posted by bostongymjunkie
But if it were a video showing what appears to be police brutality I think your response would be different. I've seen a ton of video footage directly by people at the protests nationwide, not media. In contrast you're talking about a few protests. I don't see either as solid proof of anything but it's quite apparent that there was quite a bit of non compliance with masks and social distancing and the "medical professional" mixed messages are my issue. The existence of the article supports this. Example, does this photo look like social distancing? And I see a lot of masks and a lot of bare faces. https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/05/healt...rnd/index.html
The life and death thing is a red herring. You didn't save any lives, in fact some of the protests resulted in dozens of dead.
Dozens dead? I don't think cops killed that many. I know BLM protesters didn't kill that many. There have been claims of 1000s of cops injured and up to 36 people killed by BLMrs, but those claims have been fact checked and debunked. Right wingers were quick to blame BLM for any murder committed by people of color at that time, the retired St Louis cop, the young woman from IA (etc)... yet none of those had any association with BLM except white nationalists wanting there to be. We did have right wingers kills people, such as the Charlottesville.
Again, with the police brutality, I relied on my own eyes. I'm in RI. The RI State Police held back the overly aggressive city police in one situation I was at. When they weren't there I did see Providence police brutalize peaceful protestors.
And Nationwide isnt' relevant. Different states had different directives. Here, in RI and MA at the time (along with several other states), the directive was distance and when you can't, mask. That was overwhelmingly done. I've gone through my pics and you'd be hard pressed to identify anyone without a mask. A protest in a different state that would likely have different rules isn't relevant.
Though with that pic you posted, I'm really struggling to see anyone without masks... I see one without on top, one where it slipped under a nose but was over a month, one of a score in another without one, but with all those people... almost everyone masked.. The directive, here, at the time was 6' of distance. When you can't, mask. NOT 6' of distance AND masked. It was OR. That CNN pic shows a situation where people can't distance, and overwhelmingly they are masked. Looked like they followed the guidance.
You can dig up the stats, but there is a well-identified correlation between obesity and a more severe course of disease. Now having said that, that's an overall correlation... a niece of mine has a co-worker that she says is in his late 30s and runs marathons and he was hospitalized and in rough shape. He ultimately survived, but he didn't have a mild case, and he isn't old and he is very fit.
I would be interested in the stats, but I'm not sure they exist at the granualarity I'd be interested in studying. Unless a specific study was planned, I don't see any reason why they would collect information on COVID patients' V02 Max or detailed athletic history. Obesity is a starting point, but there are loads of ways to be not obese, and not all of them are necessarily healthy.
As far as the marathon runner, I've heard about a couple of those too (no deaths, but some serious cases). This is exactly the reason I wish we had detailed stats, but probably never will. Of course I know nothing about your neice's coworker, so could be totally off, but I do know a bit about marathons. First off they aren't necessarily good for you. Better than being obese? Sure, but not necessarily an indication of peak health.
Some studies I've seen suggest the optimial amount of running for longevity/health is around 25 miles per week. A competitive marathon cycle involves long periods of training at 70-140 miles per week, well above that's considered optimally healthy. The event itself is very hard on the body. The studies seem inconclusive as to whether, or to what extend a hard marathon effort will suppress the immune system, but most seem to suggest about a 3 day window post-marathon effort where the immune system is significantly compromised.
Late 30s is also a special time in life for the marathon runner. That is actually the age range where most men hit their lifetime best for the event, unlike many athletic persuits where men tend to peak in their 20s. If you check out the top 10 men running the olympic marathon this year, most of them are actually in their 30s with first place guy being age 37 years old, the top 4 finishers all in their 30s and 5th place being a 40 year old man.
If he is a competitive guy(most marathon runners are..) he may have felt some biological clock pressure and been pushing himself to the absolute limit to reach his goals while he's still in the twilight of his prime for the event. Again, this could be totally wrong and I'm making up a story but it would be one that makes sense at least
Dozens dead? I don't think cops killed that many. I know BLM protesters didn't kill that many. There have been claims of 1000s of cops injured and up to 36 people killed by BLMrs, but those claims have been fact checked and debunked. Right wingers were quick to blame BLM for any murder committed by people of color at that time, the retired St Louis cop, the young woman from IA (etc)... yet none of those had any association with BLM except white nationalists wanting there to be. We did have right wingers kills people, such as the Charlottesville.
Again, with the police brutality, I relied on my own eyes. I'm in RI. The RI State Police held back the overly aggressive city police in one situation I was at. When they weren't there I did see Providence police brutalize peaceful protestors.
And Nationwide isnt' relevant. Different states had different directives. Here, in RI and MA at the time (along with several other states), the directive was distance and when you can't, mask. That was overwhelmingly done. I've gone through my pics and you'd be hard pressed to identify anyone without a mask. A protest in a different state that would likely have different rules isn't relevant.
Though with that pic you posted, I'm really struggling to see anyone without masks... I see one without on top, one where it slipped under a nose but was over a month, one of a score in another without one, but with all those people... almost everyone masked.. The directive, here, at the time was 6' of distance. When you can't, mask. NOT 6' of distance AND masked. It was OR. That CNN pic shows a situation where people can't distance, and overwhelmingly they are masked. Looked like they followed the guidance.
Funny, I can see quite a few without masks in that one pic. There was federal guidance on gatherings based on medical advice. There was morality based chatter in media and here about other gatherings and their impact on the spread. That's the issue. Nationwide is absolutely relevant. If anything your RI comment is irrelevant to the issue I raised. In terms of deaths those pesky "right wingers" at Huff Post and the LA Times have a different story. Whose life did you save?
I try not to rely on posted videos, they can be and are shown to show what the posters want them to. Heck, a lot of people viewing selectively edited videos that spliced unrelated situations were led to believe the protests were all about violence and looting, i.e. they were purposely mislead.
I'm relying on first hand experiences having gone to several protests. Of course, those protests were also about life and death, not getting together for frivolity.
They were about death, for sure. Pretty good-sized body count across the multitude of gatherings, but the real legacy is that the national homicide rate went up significantly immediately thereafter.
Thanks for calling the human activities that were stolen from the people in the name of "public health" "frivolous," though. You have revealed exactly who you are.
I would be interested in the stats, but I'm not sure they exist at the granualarity I'd be interested in studying. Unless a specific study was planned, I don't see any reason why they would collect information on COVID patients' V02 Max or detailed athletic history. Obesity is a starting point, but there are loads of ways to be not obese, and not all of them are necessarily healthy.
As far as the marathon runner, I've heard about a couple of those too (no deaths, but some serious cases). This is exactly the reason I wish we had detailed stats, but probably never will. Of course I know nothing about your neice's coworker, so could be totally off, but I do know a bit about marathons. First off they aren't necessarily good for you. Better than being obese? Sure, but not necessarily an indication of peak health.
Some studies I've seen suggest the optimial amount of running for longevity/health is around 25 miles per week. A competitive marathon cycle involves long periods of training at 70-140 miles per week, well above that's considered optimally healthy. The event itself is very hard on the body. The studies seem inconclusive as to whether, or to what extend a hard marathon effort will suppress the immune system, but most seem to suggest about a 3 day window post-marathon effort where the immune system is significantly compromised.
Late 30s is also a special time in life for the marathon runner. That is actually the age range where most men hit their lifetime best for the event, unlike many athletic persuits where men tend to peak in their 20s. If you check out the top 10 men running the olympic marathon this year, most of them are actually in their 30s with first place guy being age 37 years old, the top 4 finishers all in their 30s and 5th place being a 40 year old man.
If he is a competitive guy(most marathon runners are..) he may have felt some biological clock pressure and been pushing himself to the absolute limit to reach his goals while he's still in the twilight of his prime for the event. Again, this could be totally wrong and I'm making up a story but it would be one that makes sense at least
Yes, VO2 max and detailed athletic history wouldn't be available for most patients. In principle, one could evaluate criteria like this over a large population and wait for some of them to catch Covid-19 and see how they do... but that would cost a lot of money and I don't think there would be much return. We already know that fitness is inversely correlated with disease severity, and that pre-existing issues like obesity, hypertension, diabetes, heart disease, smoking, etc confer increased risk for a severe course of disease. If you have the correlated variables identified and know the sign of the correlation, that's already worth a lot.
Last edited by OutdoorLover; 12-12-2021 at 04:18 PM..
Huge unprecedented covid spike at Cornell, including Omicron, in an almost completely vaccinated community. https://cornellsun.com/2021/12/11/co...person-finals/
Will other colleges in our area follow? With the migration home of college students...Expect Omicron to be unleased all over the US in the next two weeks, just in time for Christmas gatherings.
Im sure there are plenty of people who won’t be having Xmas gatherings
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