[Ursus]

Sparrow - I am one of those liberals and I own 3 guns. Most of my friends are liberals and most of them own guns too. Here's the other thing - because we take our responsibilities as gun owners very seriously, we target practice -a lot.

[Trail twister]

Here is the total truth of the matter.
(1. Wall Street controls and dominates our political system. It wholly owns one political party (gop) and dominates and controls, quite effectively the other. Do we really expect serious change from either party?

(2. 50 million people without health care and the GOP wants to dismantle medacare, and repeal the health care reform bill.

(3. 75 million people who have lost mulitple thousands of dollars in retirement savings that were manupilated and stolen by Wall Street. Then given a bail out so they could give bounes to the ones who lost it.


(4. the GOP told a lie and got us in a war and 4000 Americans dies. It has cost American tax payers 700 billion and the GOP doesn't want us to leave.

Good old tricky ricky is part of that system.
the excuse small bussiness benifits MORE than big bussiness doesn't fly the big guys do benifit from the tax on my pention.

[darstar]

Originally Posted by michigan83

Well Darstar, I know you are one of the wise old voices on this forum, so I don't want to start any trouble. I think we can at least agree that there needs to be a revolution in this country, even if we don't agree on the root of the problem!

I agree, as I think most people do actually in this Country. It is the parts that reflect getting nothing done,the graft and corruption, the military waste of lives and treasure. Yes , I actually think a lot of us on both sides can come to an agreement to better the failing social status of the Country. I still have hope, I still wish for the days when we as a people could do that, work together.
What got me going was the reference to so many who have tried to do something about, to help their fellow man, and yet be cut off at the knees by the very thing that has plagued the world since time began, greed, corruption, and power to control everyone else. Its happening on both sides and I think a lot of people., especially younger ones, have had enough. Thats the revolution, be it physical insurrection or the power of the people en mass, its still a revolution, it IS happening now. How fast it will change things is still anyone's guess .

[Ursus]

Michigan83 - ask small business owners what they need right now in order to hire workers and they will tell you 2 things: demand for their product/service and access to money. They didn't need a tax gift and in fact practically every legitimate business owner and economist will tell you tax cuts do not result in hiring - plain and simply. What's more, Snyder has negatively impacted their customer base by increasing layoffs through his k-12, higher education and and local government policies (remember public jobs are still jobs) and thus that many more people are unable to act as consumers and purchase the goods and services offered by small businesses.

Second - most of the tax cuts Snyder put in place won't benefit what most of us think of as small business - look up an independent analysis of Snyder's tax cuts and it will enlighten you.

Finally - we are in a class war - WAKE UP!

[Trail twister]

Must be an election coming up soon!!! GOP start yelling they will take away your guns. I'm considered a liberal and have a 30 long gun safe in my house. It is full of long guns and a bunch of the less expencive ones still proped in a corner some place for a lack of room not to mention the two cases full of handguns.

I really did not know Jim Brady and his family were liberals. That is distrurbing news since he was a Reagan man. I also did not know that G.H. Bush was a liberal, I swear his name was on the GOP side of the ticket.

[michigan83]

Michigan83 - ask small business owners what they need right now in order to hire workers and they will tell you 2 things: demand for their product/service and access to money. They didn't need a tax gift and in fact practically every legitimate business owner and economist will tell you tax cuts do not result in hiring - plain and simply. What's more, Snyder has negatively impacted their customer base by increasing layoffs through his k-12, higher education and and local government policies (remember public jobs are still jobs) and thus that many more people are unable to act as consumers and purchase the goods and services offered by small businesses.

This is ridiculous. Small business owners love the new tax structure. Not only will the tax rate be lower, but it is much more simple, which saves on time, money and headaches. For some of them, it could be the difference between closing their doors or staying in business. A small company that closes up shop is not going to employ anyone.

[Ursus]

M83 - read this: Small Business Owners Demand Repeal Of Bush Tax Cuts For The Rich
and this (in case you don't like the liberal media): Do Tax Cuts Create Jobs? - Forbes and all the other articles, and all the other research that clearly shows tax cuts do not stimulate job growth - and in fact often do the opposite.

[Sparrow_temp]

I propose that employers be required to use E-verify. We don't want illegals working in this country. If an employer hires them and is caught (or turned in for a bounty), they have to pay penalties so severe that they won't take the chance of hiring an illegal. I have no doubt that people hiring illegals know or suspect who they are. It's just that they want cheap labor to maximize profits.

Homeowners are just as guilty and should also have to pay penalties. People love cheap labor but there's a high cost to it at the macro level. It's time those reaping the profits from it start paying some of the costs.

Originally Posted by 313Weather

How exactly do you suppose the government will be able to track how many illegals, if any, a business hires to penalize? They're undocumented, and if they do have documentation (SS number), it was likely stolen.

[RobinHoodReturns]

What's my opinion of Rick Snyder? Snyder is one greedy man who has found a position inwhich his greed can flourish. He is a Robin Hood in reverse, taking from the poor, the unemployed, the underemployed, and the retired and giving to the rich. It will take years to undo the damage Rick Snyder has done to working class people. Common sense dictates that the economy will only recover when the public starts spending. Snyder's policies have made sure that it will be years before the average middle class family can begin spending at the levels necessary to revive our dying economy. Say hello to the dark ages, King Richard can't wait to get control of the few dollars remaining in the economy. A few words of warning to King Richard. Every dictatorship is eventually overthrown by the populace it suppresses.

[michmoldman]

Originally Posted by RobinHoodReturns

What's my opinion of Rick Snyder? Snyder is one greedy man who has found a position inwhich his greed can flourish. He is a Robin Hood in reverse, taking from the poor, the unemployed, the underemployed, and the retired and giving to the rich. It will take years to undo the damage Rick Snyder has done to working class people. Common sense dictates that the economy will only recover when the public starts spending. Snyder's policies have made sure that it will be years before the average middle class family can begin spending at the levels necessary to revive our dying economy. Say hello to the dark ages, King Richard can't wait to get control of the few dollars remaining in the economy. A few words of warning to King Richard. Every dictatorship is eventually overthrown by the populace it suppresses.

Back again I see