Minneapolis-St. Paul Ranked #4th Snobbiest City. (Cleveland: moving, area, cities)

[Katarina Witt]

OK, I just finished reading this thread from where it took off in October. My daughter moved to Minnesota (St. Paul) about a year ago, and we visited last summer. In addition, my other daughter went to St. Olaf, so we spent some time in Mpls when she was there. Often, we'd get a motel in Mpls b/c it was easier to find one than in Northfield. I have a few comments:

Originally Posted by iama30something

I grew up and lived in Minneapolis for 25 years and now have been living in Los Angeles for almost 4 years.

Even though I would say people from the Twin Cities are friendlier, they are much more snobbier, too. Minnesotans can't stop bragging about silly things like the Twins Stadium, 10,000 lakes, "Minnesota Nice", amazing springs, amazing summers, amazing falls, how great the State Fair is, etc… No one cares Prince is from Minnesota, except for Minnesotans.

LA has the exact opposite problem. No one cares about anything about this city including: the ocean, mountains, entertainers or weather.

I agree completely! This summer, I said "how do they stand themselves? Everything there is just the best, best, best! The best schools, the best colleges, the only this, that and the other". My daughter was volunteering at a wildlife rescue place that was supposedly the only one in the US. Funny how I saw an ad for a similar place in Boulder, CO right after she told me that.

Originally Posted by green_mariner

Well, consider this. I mentioned Minnesota to some people in the Atlanta area. The very first thing that came out of their mouths was "that state? It sucks, it gets cold over there, nothing over there". First thing mentioned was nothing but negative comments, and as I was trying to point out some good things about the state, they weren't hearing it. And the interesting thing is, these persons had never been to Minnesota. My mother spent a few years in Minnesota, I have relatives there, I've been there. The people making the worst comments about Minnesota were people who had never been there.

Well, people who live in warm climates do not think much of cold climates. Lots of Californians (and others)s think Colorado is too cold, too.

Originally Posted by mr roboto

Counting racial makeup on a City Council is not the best way to determine whether or not an area is diverse. In fact, it's a bit insulting to minority cultures to suggest that once they have gotten a person on the City Council they have somehow arrived.

To me, the real question of whether or not a city is welcoming of newcomers or minority cultures is whether or not those cultures can open and run cultural businesses and whether or not the dominant majority culture takes an interest in the newly formed minority culture by frequenting those businesses, attending festivals and art fairs and music performances. Can a group of newcomers or minority subgroups thrive in an area? Are the rules fair and is there any institutional racism present in banks or schools or any of the social systems that would prevent minorities from being able to create a foothold and thrive in an area.

In other words, creating a percentage of racial mix on some government board whether it be at a city, state or federal level is the cheapest and least helpful metric to determine whether or not a minority culture is fairly represented and treated.

Since I do not currently live in the Twin Cities I have no strong opinion on whether or not they are monolithic or insular. But either way, pointing to a black or female or Asian or Muslim politician getting elected is not, in my opinion, very telling.

It shows who people are willing to vote for. I'm proud that Denver, with a small black population (~10%), has had not just one but two black mayors. Denver also elected a Hispanic mayor back in the early 1980s, when the Hispanic population was not as large as it is now, and even now is only ~31%.

[uptown_urbanist]

RE city council member ethnicity, it doesn't necessarily show who people are willing to vote for; it can just as easily show who is running for office. The Twin Cities has demonstrated that its residents are willing to vote for candidates of different backgrounds, but if the candidates for a given office all happen to be, say, white men, then that's who is going to get elected. Personally, I think the larger issue is that we need to encourage a broader range of people to consider running for those types of jobs.

[rzzzz]

Minneapolis is very segregated. It makes sense that Abdi Warsame gets elected in Ward 6. Minneapolitans do like to tout diversity but words like "acceptance" and "tolerance" are used too often which actually are pretty isolationist and unwelcoming. ("we accept and tolerate the presence of minorities") Statistically minority groups do much worse here than they do in other states. Hispanic high school graduation rates are the worst out of any state and African Americans graduation rates are the 2nd worst. The longstanding AA community in North Minneapolis has worse economic outcomes than the recent Somali immigrants, who have pretty bad outcomes to begin with. This should be a tragedy but most Minnesotans are pretty insular and oblivious to anyone's plight outside their own tiny social circles.

[Katarina Witt]

Originally Posted by uptown_urbanist

RE city council member ethnicity, it doesn't necessarily show who people are willing to vote for; it can just as easily show who is running for office. The Twin Cities has demonstrated that its residents are willing to vote for candidates of different backgrounds, but if the candidates for a given office all happen to be, say, white men, then that's who is going to get elected. Personally, I think the larger issue is that we need to encourage a broader range of people to consider running for those types of jobs.

In most cities, women and minorities have been running for office for a long time.

[uptown_urbanist]

Originally Posted by Katiana

In most cities, women and minorities have been running for office for a long time.

Yes, clearly they have in the Twin Cities, too -- including our former city of Minneapolis black female mayor. But white men still run for local offices at a disproportionately high rate.

In any case, my point is that you can't look at a city and make claims about who the residents are willing to vote for based strictly on who is currently in office. I'm not sure if that was the leap you were trying to make, but in some of the locations mentioned, the residents are clearly willing to vote for people who look different than they do -- such as the locations that vote for Keith Ellison yet still have white city councils. In any case, in many Twin Cities suburbs the diversity has really come only relatively recently; there will presumably be far more candidates and elected officials of different ethnic/racial backgrounds with time. But if you're suggesting that because (a) local city officials are white therefore (b) the voters in that city are not willing to vote for candidates who aren't white, well, that's faulty logic and is easily disproved here.

[Govie]

Originally Posted by Katiana

It shows who people are willing to vote for. I'm proud that Denver, with a small black population (~10%), has had not just one but two black mayors. Denver also elected a Hispanic mayor back in the early 1980s, when the Hispanic population was not as large as it is now, and even now is only ~31%.

Keith Elison (MN) is the FIRST black Muslim elected at the national level; Minneapolis has the largest population of Somalis than any other place on the planet outside of Somalia - the Twin Cities has one of the largest Indochinese population in the country as well.

[Katarina Witt]

Originally Posted by uptown_urbanist

Yes, clearly they have in the Twin Cities, too -- including our former city of Minneapolis black female mayor. But white men still run for local offices at a disproportionately high rate.

In any case, my point is that you can't look at a city and make claims about who the residents are willing to vote for based strictly on who is currently in office. I'm not sure if that was the leap you were trying to make, but in some of the locations mentioned, the residents are clearly willing to vote for people who look different than they do -- such as the locations that vote for Keith Ellison yet still have white city councils. In any case, in many Twin Cities suburbs the diversity has really come only relatively recently; there will presumably be far more candidates and elected officials of different ethnic/racial backgrounds with time. But if you're suggesting that because (a) local city officials are white therefore (b) the voters in that city are not willing to vote for candidates who aren't white, well, that's faulty logic and is easily disproved here.

All I can say is, your suburbs are way behind the curve, in that case. We've lived in the same Denver suburb since 1982 and there have always been women on the city council, sometimes a majority. There is one open council seat this year, three people are running, two women and one man. My county's commissioners are all women. The school board has a female majority. In fact, women are pretty much at parity in local politics here. Women are well represented in most of the suburbs. A few examples:
City of Louisville, Colorado - City Council
City of Westminster > City Government > City Council
City and County of Broomfield - Official Website - Council Members
City Council Members | Wheat Ridge, CO - Official Website
https://www.auroragov.org/cityhall/m...bers/index.htm
Board Members

[rzzzz]

Nobody in Minnesota (or anywhere else) cares about the city council in Broomfield, Colorado....

[Govie]

Originally Posted by rzzzz

Nobody in Minnesota (or anywhere else) cares about the city council in Broomfield, Colorado....

lllmao.


And I'm curious what Katian thinks about MN putting in the first (black, no less) Muslim congressman in U.S. Congress.

[Cleverfield]

I think you're focusing too much on the issue of how many non-white elected officials you have. I really don't think that having black congresspeople, councilmen, or other elected officials means much of anything. The bigger issue is whether different ethnicities feel welcomed in society, and I think the overwhelming evidence points to the fact that African Americans especially don't feel welcome in Minneapolis.