I don't understand why people move to Quebec/Montreal from FRANCE! (2015, apartment)

[french user]

Originally Posted by TheTourist

According to official statistics France provides the most immigrants to Canada from the 1st world European nations, I don't remember the exact numbers, but you can look it up online, it's quite significant. Large numbers of those go to Montreal of course.

What I don't understand why these people move to Canada, they speak french french, obviously not for family reasons.

Why would anyone leave gorgeous France, one of the most well developed (not only economically, but also culturally), integrated, refined countries in the world with mild livable climate, beautiful diverse nature (Alps, Normandy, Mediterranean) for place like Quebec or particularly Montreal???

Do they think Quebec is a land of opportunities and when they didn't make it in one of the most developer countries in the world, a 6 figure job will magically descend on them in Canada?

I'm sorry Quebec isn't exactly the US in its better times. You pay 30-40%+ from any decent paycheck here and 13% sales tax, usually start with a 3 week vacation (compared to 5-7 weeks in France) and work generally in more toxic environments.

On a street level Montreal is quite gritty city stuck in 80's (there's some charm to it I admit) with lots of low-brow rough people and dumbed down jock/thug-worshiping culture with little alternative to that.

I can only see a loss in a lifestyle for someone moving from France to Quebec (vacation-, culture-, weather-, everything else-wise, unless you like snow and hockey).

At the same time I don't see Canada, especially Quebec as a land of financial opportunities -- one should move to higher salary/lower taxes country like Switzerland or the US if that's the main goal.

Am I right they're just uninformed people who make a mistake moving here or I'm missing something? This whole french french moving to Quebec or Canada thing is very puzzling for me.

What's the point?

You seem to idealise France... The reality of life for 95% of the people is not at all the "romantic/European" vision of life that most tourists experience. France has very strong unemployment problems and many social difficulties. few places are like the central parts of Paris "chic and refined", this is a cliché made on an exception. Many people here live in sad suburbian areas, with soulness "lotissements" (individual housing) with not much attractiveness, sometimes in "cités" (social housing blocks) with lots of violence in the worst cases. other people live in remote countrysides, without any contact with the "chic ans high-class culture" of Paris inner city, for them, the image of modern North American cities they have on television since their childhood is appealing and constitute the "American dream". Nobody in France idealise our own country (I find is sometimes that we tend to be blind to our good sides, (that obviously exist, even if they are not accessible to everybody). But this is unfortunally a part of the french mentality to complain about our own country all the time.)
Montréal, and Quebec in général is seen as the "french-speaking America"; that why many people want to try and expérience to live a north American life, without having to struggle with complex language and too strong cultural shocks.
You might say that Québec is not a carbon copy of the US, you're probably right, but it is similar to those numerous Americans that goes to London and think they will found there the image they have of "European life" (usually based on Parisian clichés): Café culture, terrasses, narrow cobble stone streets, chic people dressed in dark colors, romanticness of old stone moussy buildings. In reality London is nothing like that but more like NY: brick victorian buildings, starbuck's culture, glass skycrappers in the heart of the city, fast food and beer culture, bright color dressing, sprtswear... All of this is also very exotic for a french person, and as such attractive.

I personally live in Montréal what I was student a few years ago. I decided to go there to experience north America without having to adapt to a completly new culture (I did'nt speak English well, and I didn't want to fail my exams). Aslo I was fascinated by the fact I could live in a culture that is a mix of my own and in the same time that is full of Anglo-saxon and north American cultural aspects. This was a fascinating experience, even if it was at that moment I took conscience of the fact I was deeply European, and was finally happy to come back.

[Dude111]

Originally Posted by TheTourist

I don't understand why people move to Quebec/Montreal from FRANCE!

Isnt Quebec the most FRENCH SPEAKING province in Canada?? (Thats probably why right there )

[FrancaisDeutsch]

A great thread!

Some people don't understand "la vraie France." Quality in life can easily be seen as superior in Quebec, despite harsh winters (some parts of France can experience this) and less vacation. Many French people HATE high taxes, high prices, few jobs opportunities for most, and the lack of common everyday luxuries we take for granted in North America. And, yes, the mentality of the average French people (racists, narrow-minded, importance of *your lineage). Plus, they can live there and still speak their native tongue (makes it even more attractive). Sure, there are some charms in France here and there, but for many, everyday life is found to be much better in francophone Canada.

I was horrified by the "blocs immobiliers" in suburban Paris (smells, the filth, the poverty, etc....nothing I've ever seen in North American, despite all the digusting ghettos of North American cities). It wasn't just one building, but the way the average immigrant was living in Paris and Marseille, without evening talking about how poor white French people live compared to poor from where I'm from in the US...

* already mentioned...so, so TRUE

Quality of life is more than the number of vacation days and sunny weather. (La qualité de la vie ne se résume pas dans le nombre de jours de vacances offert et de temps ensoleillé.)

Il fait bon vivre en France = pour ceux et celles ayant du grand fric ...maybe

[smihaila]

The same thing happens in La Belle Province - Quebec - high (income) taxes, high prices, fewer opportunities.

[FrancaisDeutsch]

Originally Posted by smihaila

The same thing happens in La Belle Province - Quebec - high (income) taxes, high prices, fewer opportunities.

Not like in France...just to have a car and pay for gas is a total nightmare.

[jsmith01]

As far as i know people usually are coming from France to get make their studies here in Montreal, it is a lot cheaper, even with the tickets, living and eating ))

[Those Who Squirm]

Originally Posted by djmanu

I moved from Belgium to Montreal and quality of life is definitely better here.
I can afford a bigger house with a bigger car, have access to great job opportunities with twice my Europe salary.
I also escaped the socialist minset and some racism that I hated so much.
I love when you talk about 30% tax being high, in Belgium i just paid 47% income tax and 21% sales tax
Sorry friends, Europe is only great to visit

Starting from a point in Belgium you could drive for a day and travel through several different countries, each with its own history and culture, and most with their own languages. Slightly further afield you could reach the Mediterranean countries. We have a lot of advantages in North America, even including some cultural ones. But we have nothing to rival countries like Italy and Greece for the sheer magnitude of their history. Or, at least not in a way that resonates with most of us personally.

Do you miss that aspect of life in Europe?

Naturally, I appreciate the fact that planes, trains, and petrol aren't free, but still I'm assuming that the average European can easily plan to make such trips at least occasionally. Traveling to Rome for a Belgian is like traveling to Denver for a Californian, and there's no way you can compare the sense of "otherness" that the destination city would provide for the traveler.

[aliss2]

I have an in-law here from Marseilles. He describes it as being able to enjoy North American locations and luxuries while earning enough to go back home frequently. As much as Quebec has political headaches, France has them too, in a more vicious way (immigration, etc).

[ArrongantParisian]

Good points have been mentioned like the exotic factor of a North American city and the comfort of the french language.
I think the day to day quality of life is a major factor in keeping immigrants in Montreal. This means:
-Polite people, usually nice
-Walkable city
-Affordable housing
-Good transportation system
-Charming city with personality, human sized but still big enough to get some action

France has many issues that you don't see as a tourist. Or maybe you don't realize their impact.
-Aggressive people. You can get in a fight for nothing and fast.
-Failed immigration and integration. We get most of our immigration from Africa and were never able to integrate them massively in society. Because they were generally poor, they had to live in projects (the famous "cités") and the white french left these places. We know have ghettos in many suburban cities ("banlieues"). These places and their host cities suffer from high crime.
-Elitist and rigid society. If you're looking for a job, your degree is more important than your hands on experience. Our political leaders all come from the same elitist school (ENA). It's a Republic on the front, but in the background it's still a kingdom.
-Housing in Paris is so expensive that middle class lives in the suburbs. These places are mostly uninteresting, remote from interesting action, and sometimes not safe.


Now Quebec has problems too.
-Health care system is a joke. It's free, but so overloaded that actual access to healthcare is lower.
-The Quebec nationalism. Depending on the person it can range from healthy pride to racism
-The infrastructure of Montreal is in a catastrophic state because of corruption in the construction.
-There is much less richness and diversity in culture (sorry if I offend someone...).

But these problems just seem to no affect day to day quality of life as much as the problems in France.

I was raised in one of the bad suburbs of Paris. It was a bad places where you could get insulted or worse in the street or bus just for starting too long at someone
When I was a teenager I got beaten up by a group of other teenagers in the street for no reason. I later learnt from the police they were roaming the city(suburb), attacking people randomly because they were bored.
Another day, I was in a quiet street when some guy put a knife under my throat and asked for my wallet.
Another time hey took my phone.

I don't want to make it sound like it's a war zone, but it's a bad place, and being on your guard all the time is exhausting.

In Quebec I feel safe (I'll admit there are very rare exceptions).
I was able to progress in my career that was stuck in France.
I like the "live and let live" attitude.

5 years since I arrived in Quebec, and I would never go back to my Parisian suburb. It actually feels like a bad dream now.

I find the rest of Canada to be interesting too, I will for sure move to another province at some point to keep it interesting.
But Quebec has a lot going for the French.

[Sudcaro]

Originally Posted by TheTourist

Why would anyone leave gorgeous France, one of the most well developed (not only economically, but also culturally), integrated, refined countries in the world with mild livable climate, beautiful diverse nature (Alps, Normandy, Mediterranean) for place like Quebec or particularly Montreal??

You've obviously never lived in France. Life there is far from perfect.