Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
But they are -- they are cheapening the cost of labor at the expense of Americans (and let me not even get into rising crime).
This land has no "natives". Stop it. In fact, up until the 1960s, "Native American" meant native born American, particularly White. Then in the 1960s, the bs started and Indians were now called Native American. But technically, even Indians came from somewhere else. However, the UNITED STATES was a country founded for a free people, it was never intended to become a haven for illegal immigrants.
Pick up a real history book.
Oh, I’m sorry. I didn’t realize this was an uninhabited piece of land when it was colonized.
Oh, I’m sorry. I didn’t realize this was an uninhabited piece of land when it was colonized.
This land was settled. It was inhabited by people who originally came from Asia (Siberian highlands). Nobody was always here. That is irrelevant. The Indians here never made a claim to a particular land since there were many different tribes who slaughtered and hated each other. They also did not have the concept of property. The UNITED STATES was built by English settlers. So, if that triggers you, hand in your passport if you have one.
This land was settled. It was inhabited by people who originally came from Asia (Siberian highlands). Nobody was always here. That is irrelevant. The Indians here never made a claim to a particular land since there were many different tribes who slaughtered and hated each other. They also did not have the concept of property. The UNITED STATES was built by English settlers. So, if that triggers you, hand in your passport if you have one.
Oh ok. So they were cool with being slaughtered and having their land taken over because they had no concept of property. Perhaps if they had the foresight to write it down on a piece of paper the English settlers would’ve just turned around and gone home because, you know, the land was taken. Gotta respect the law of the land. You’re a trip.
And I could never be triggered by strangers on the internet. I’m here for amusement.
Oh ok. So they were cool with being slaughtered and having their land taken over because they had no concept of property. Perhaps if they had the foresight to write it down on a piece of paper the English settlers would’ve just turned around and gone home because, you know, the land was taken. Gotta respect the law of the land. You’re a trip.
Ans I could never be triggered by strangers on the internet. I’m here for amusement.
"Their land"? They never claimed a property title on it! So stop with that lie. Who said this is "their" land? Was there a record of that? Or is land something you just say is yours and by act of magic, it becomes yours?
I don´t know if they were "cool" with being slaughtered. They definitely were familiar with it...because they slaughtered each other quite a bit, a lot before any European arrived on these shores.
You're having a laugh for sure! You must live in a funny world if you think you can just say land is yours and by act of just your words, the land becomes yours! You should try that trick...maybe you can go to wealthy NJ areas and just say the land belongs to you because you are a Native American. Yeah...ok.
"Their land"? They never claimed a property title on it! So stop with that lie. Who said this is "their" land? Was there a record of that? Or is land something you just say is yours and by act of magic, it becomes yours?
I don´t know if they were "cool" with being slaughtered. They definitely were familiar with it...because they slaughtered each other quite a bit, a lot before any European arrived on these shores.
You're having a laugh for sure! You must live in a funny world if you think you can just say land is yours and by act of just your words, the land becomes yours! You should try that trick...maybe you can go to wealthy NJ areas and just say the land belongs to you because you are a Native American. Yeah...ok.
Wait. Now I’m genuinely curious. What made this land property of the settlers?
Wait. Now I’m genuinely curious. What made this land property of the settlers?
You should go back and answer your own question -- why does this land belong to Indians? At least with settlers, they had a concept of property. They settled the land, often made deals with the Indians (which the Indians gladly accepted) and then life went on. When that failed, they warred against each other and the settlers often won (but sometimes lost). Life is not fair for many. There will always be winners and losers.
In the extremely unlikely event that any particular Indian can show that he personally is the rightful heir of a particular Indian who was wrongfully dispossessed of a particular piece of property, the current occupants should hand him the land or house and vacate, no? In absence of that, the current occupants have the strongest claim to the property. Sorry, that´s how it goes.
Stop trying to sell your collective guilt. It´s not going to work with me. I do not believe in inherited guilt or "original sin".
I’m not trying to sell guilt, whatever that means. I’m really just trying to understand your train of though. You actually seem to claim to believe that if the natives had a concept of property — meaning they wrote down “this land is mine because I was here first”, the settlers would’ve just said “ok, sorry to disturb you we’ll just be on our merry way”. NO. That would’ve changed absolutely nothing. When a land is conquered there is no regard for anything. I feel silly even typing this because I know you already know this. It’s ok man. I’m not blaming YOU for the actions of others before you. I’m just making an analogy of how this country was founded and illegal immigration today. From a morality standpoint, I don’t see how illegal immigration today is even half as bad. That’s all.
I’m not trying to sell guilt, whatever that means. I’m really just trying to understand your train of though. You actually seem to claim to believe that if the natives had a concept of property — meaning they wrote down “this land is mine because I was here first”, the settlers would’ve just said “ok, sorry to disturb you we’ll just be on our merry way”. NO. That would’ve changed absolutely nothing. When a land is conquered there is no regard for anything. I feel silly even typing this because I know you already know this. It’s ok man. I’m not blaming YOU for the actions of others before you. I’m just making an analogy of how this country was founded and illegal immigration today. From a morality standpoint, I don’t see how illegal immigration today is even half as bad. That’s all.
Oh I am fully aware of that point, yes. But that applies to everyone, not just the settlers. The Pawnees hated the Sioux and warred with them, etc, etc. All history shows us that land and wealth is acquired, indeed, by conquest. But Europeans created a system of laws that greatly improved the situation of the natural state of things.
The only reason the elite want illegal immigration is cheap labor. Illegal immigration is one of the greatest human catastrophes of our era. It pains me to see so many people leaving their homeland. I will even say this for internal migration.
They become rootless trees, suburban and urban splinters...and nothing more than cheap labor, part of the grind. Illegal immigration is the 21st century slavery.
By the way, just to be clear: I treat any human being with the same respect I would wish to be treated. I treat all human beings equally, regardless of race or background. I do not judge people based on their ethnicity or skin tone. All I say is that illegal immigration is a human tragedy and I cannot support it. It is also not fair, it is absolutely unfair and dangerous to the native worker.
I just want to remind you all that our “founding fathers” came here and slaughtered the natives of this land and you expect illegal immigrants to be ashamed of entering this country without permission, even when they’re not physically harming a soul. FOH
2 Points I want to make:
1. Europeans conquered the land, which has been normal human activity since history started to be recorded. And most likely long before that. And this was not a European invention. This happened on all inhabited continents, by people of every race and nationality. If anything, Europeans should be credited with putting a stop to this historic, global, human practice by forming organizations like the UN and NATO. In recent decades, it has become commonplace to judge history through the lens of modern morality and sensibilities, but that makes no more sense than judging our primate ancestors for bashing each other over the head over a banana.
2. I don't think illegal aliens should be ashamed for doing what is in the best interest of their families. We should all do what is in the best interest of our families. If I came from a poor, 3rd world country, and there was a rich country that made it very easy for me to give my family a good life by entering illegally, I would do the same thing. My problem isn't with the illegal aliens, themselves. It is with our government, who is supposed to be doing things in the best interest of OUR families, but often does the opposite, like in this case. It used to be very difficult to have a normal life here as an illegal alien, as it still is in most countries. But our government has been making it easier and easier for people to come here as an illegal. Illegals are out protesting for "their rights", without fear of being rounded up and deported. What "rights" should someone have in a country where they are living illegally?
So, we need people to be here illegally, so that wages can remain low enough that the middle class can afford services that they once could not afford? That is a great argument for never legalizing them. After all, once they are Americans, 3/4 of the landscaping jobs would probably go out of business. So what you are saying is, a pathway to citizenship would be very bad for the economy.
Also, you need to remember that illegal aliens cost us over $100B in services, like schooling for their children, medical care, etc. So we are subsidizing the landscaping with our taxes, making it more expensive than it seems on the surface.
Alternatively, you could kick them all out, and legally bring in enough low skill workers, from 3rd world countries to keep the supply high enough to keep the wages low. Maybe give some poor Ethiopians or Hatians a chance instead of all the jobs going to illegals from south of the border. Or maybe give work visas to those people from south of the border that didn't illegally sneak into our economy?
The bottom line is, everyone wants to come here. We will never run out of people who will take the legal route, if offered. There are literally billions of people from poverty stricken countries who would all come here, given the chance. If they all just came on their own, illegally, we would have a huge fiscal problem. Thankfully, they don't.
Of the ones that do, what makes them so special that we should just ignore their transgressions, or worse, encourage them?
My point about the landscapers was to a poster who thought that if we got rid of all the illegals tomorrow it would leave a ton of good jobs for Americans all of a sudden. It would not work that way.
I just don’t think it’s that big an issue. Again remember, up until a few years ago illegal border crossings were at 50 year lows. Never had illegal immigrants be a threat to my career, unlike legal immigrants. In 2017 when we started getting really tough and there weren’t enough immigrants coming in, California threw out entire fields full of produce that there was no one to pick. They contribute a good deal to the economy. I think with all the problems we have to worry about in this country, that is the least of them.
You still haven’t told me which of the occupations on that list you think are being done by people who are sneaking over the border. The vast majority of occupation licenses on that list are going to be applied for by dreamers.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
