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It isn't a cop out, its a choice everyone is entitled to make.
I stopped all contact with my mom because, not only is she bat **** insane, she is also abusive. As an adult, I wasn't even safe around her. Of course she put up a good front and some people would have thought she deserved mom of the year. Until I told them the things she did.
In the process I lost her, my brother (who is super emotionally immature and never was really interested in a relationship anyways) and my aunt. But I gained a very close relationship with my mom's former best friend from when I was little (a second mom) and close connections with countless other people who knew of the abuse and have supported me in my getting well, or didn't know of it but trust me.
My kids wont have a grandmother or an uncle...but they wouldn't be who they wanted anyways. When I did have contact with my mom I was a nervous wreck and she acted like they had coodies. My brother couldn't be bothered to care. And the bottom line is if my mom would abuse me and my siblings, she is not safe with my kids. And they are my first priority. Not her.
And yes, this came about with a ton of therapy. Many years so far. But I choose to stand in support of people who made the tough decision to severe ties because I don't know all the details of their lives.
I'm not criticizing your choices or dismissing them as emotionally unhealthy. I'm simply saying that I hope that people strongly consider all their alternatives prior to cutting people out of their lives entirely. Sometimes there are less radical alternatives.
For instance with my mother, who, by the way, is an unmedicated (and diagnosed) bipolar person with some serious paranoia going on - she is never going to be normal. We are never going to have a normal relationship, because she is mentally ill and refuses to accept this fact or accept treatment. She is also an intelligent, articulate, attractive, gifted woman who yearns for love and acceptance and knows deep in her insecure heart that she is gnarly and weird to an extreme. She was very emotionally abusive to me as i was growing up and as I became a young adult. It took me several years of therapy to work through my issues with her and the ramifications of her untreated mental illness. Like many such instances, there was a ripple effect throughout our entire family.
It was very difficult to work through. My husband has told me many times that personally he wouldn't have had the fortitude and he wouldn't have blamed me if I had cut her loose years ago and had nothing to do with her. But I assured him that I have things with her under control - and he began to realize that yes, I do. I don't put up with her when her behavior is out of control. But I am thankful that I am able to have a relationship of some sort with her - and my children and grandchiildren do too. Yes, they know she's weird, but I've been able to model appropriate responses to her for them, and they've consequently learned a lot about establishing their own healthy personal boundaries.
In fact, I teach a "Personal Boundaries" class to disadvantaged women in our community, so I am also able to help them as well with what I've learned.
And by the way, if my mother continued to abuse me mentally or emotionally, I would allow her to feel the effects of her actions. I've had to do that with her over the years off and on. When she oversteps my boundaries, I tell her and I withdraw from her until she accepts her fault and apologizes sincerely. This has taken up to 18 months so it hasn't been an easy road.
But I have no regrets at all and I sleep with a clean conscience and no doubt. Perhaps others do as well - I hope so, regardless of whether or not they've put a person out of their lives entirely.
And that's just the big stuff. There were seven years of digs, petty jealousies, high school mentality sibling rivalry, and so on that I rose above, time after time, year after year. But no. No jury in the world. Indeed, that's what my friends hammered home. One said, "So maybe you lost your temper and said a few hurtful things. What are you supposed to do, let people say whatever crappy thing they want to say to you and treat you whatever crappy way they want to treat you, year after year, and you're just supposed to take it? No. NO. They had it coming." ("They" because I told my ex-SO off about a month before. Same deal.)
See why I love my friends?
Oh, listen - I believe you and I'm not saying we should never cut someone out of our lives. I have cut two people entirely out of my life over the years and there may be more. Some people absolutely refuse to respect your parameters - ever. And that's a deal killer for me right there.
But sometimes relationships are worth a bit more work on our part - and only we can really know which of those fall into that category. In the end, we can only worry about what OUR responsibility is, not what theirs is. It's our conscience we are responsible for - not theirs.
Kathryn, I love your posts and know you are someone I respect from them. But...I don't want to shame people who choose to severe ties. For many it could be just time they need to heal. Some might not be able to verbalize the abuse. And yeah, a few are big jerks too, or even bigger. Even more "bat **** insane" then their mom.
I'm just not on the jury. As much as I have appriciated the support I have gotten, I'm going to pass it on. Not as a witch hunt, but as a soft place to land. No matter their decision.
No one, as an adult, owes anything to their family of origin. If they earned it through love, awesome. If they find a happy medium, great. I can't pretend to know all they went through.
You're still in therapy - on at least your third therapist. Maybe you aren't adept at addressing these issues from a strong, healthy perspective yet - and you may never be. That's OK - I'm not advocating that we should try to maintain difficult relationships when we ourselves are still fragile or coming from a weakened perspective. And sometimes the damage is so severe that we are never able to fully recover - and that's not a character slam by the way - it's just reality.
I'm referring to only two therapists: my former one and the one I have now. The only reason have the one I have now is because I moved 600+ miles away. I'm in therapy for my anxiety issues, but it is very much related to this situation: how to develop self-confidence/self-esteem, recognizing that I'm entitled to feel certain ways without feeling guilty about it, learning to defend myself in difficult situations. And I am most certainly more mentally "stable" than the person I am cutting off. I brought this situation up with my therapists because I keep doubting myself and glossing over everything. Meanwhile, I'm the crutch for this person who goes through friends and jobs like tissues. I don't need the frustration, and when I look around at my other friends, I think to myself, "there are plenty of people that are normal, awesome people that don't act like this. why am I letting this person monopolize my time?" For months after my move, it was so freeing that I didn't have to interact with this person unless I was back in my old city and didn't think to avoid contact. Then this person started getting closer again and demanded to see me every time I visited and eventually came to see me where I am now. This person even said something about how nice it would be to live here and had apparently contacted a recruiter about a position here. I was followed to my old city by this person, and now there's hinting at moving here? I think not.
There's nothing wrong with getting a backbone and to start telling people how you want to be treated.
I agree. My husband stood up to his emotionally abusive mother and said enough was enough. There needed to be limits going forward. Her response was to walk out of our lives. She refused to speak to him if the relationship wasn't going to be on "her terms" (and of course, it was all his fault).
They didn't speak for 5 years and apparently, that was the amount of time it took for her to realize he was serious.
They now talk, we are planning a visit in March. But sometimes you need to be willing to walk away in order to inflict change.
I'm not criticizing your choices or dismissing them as emotionally unhealthy. I'm simply saying that I hope that people strongly consider all their alternatives prior to cutting people out of their lives entirely. Sometimes there are less radical alternatives.
For instance with my mother, who, by the way, is an unmedicated (and diagnosed) bipolar person with some serious paranoia going on - she is never going to be normal. We are never going to have a normal relationship, because she is mentally ill and refuses to accept this fact or accept treatment. She is also an intelligent, articulate, attractive, gifted woman who yearns for love and acceptance and knows deep in her insecure heart that she is gnarly and weird to an extreme. She was very emotionally abusive to me as i was growing up and as I became a young adult. It took me several years of therapy to work through my issues with her and the ramifications of her untreated mental illness. Like many such instances, there was a ripple effect throughout our entire family.
It was very difficult to work through. My husband has told me many times that personally he wouldn't have had the fortitude and he wouldn't have blamed me if I had cut her loose years ago and had nothing to do with her. But I assured him that I have things with her under control - and he began to realize that yes, I do. I don't put up with her when her behavior is out of control. But I am thankful that I am able to have a relationship of some sort with her - and my children and grandchiildren do too. Yes, they know she's weird, but I've been able to model appropriate responses to her for them, and they've consequently learned a lot about establishing their own healthy personal boundaries.
In fact, I teach a "Personal Boundaries" class to disadvantaged women in our community, so I am also able to help them as well with what I've learned.
And by the way, if my mother continued to abuse me mentally or emotionally, I would allow her to feel the effects of her actions. I've had to do that with her over the years off and on. When she oversteps my boundaries, I tell her and I withdraw from her until she accepts her fault and apologizes sincerely. This has taken up to 18 months so it hasn't been an easy road.
But I have no regrets at all and I sleep with a clean conscience and no doubt. Perhaps others do as well - I hope so, regardless of whether or not they've put a person out of their lives entirely.
I support and respect you. I also cut off my dad. He is schizophrenic. On meds he is so smart, funny, endearing. But its fleeting. And he doesn't remember the weird crazies he did as I was growing up. He won't accept boundaries. Pre-meds he asked me to come for coffee...I told him he was a 5 hour flight, he said to get on a magic bus us rich people have. I told him I had to go to work, so he laid off. On meds he cried and begged me to visit with my kids. But my dad...one minute he is being charming, 2 seconds later he is screaming paranoid nonsense. I can't have my kids experience that. I won't. I wish I could be more to him. But he and my mom took more then their share as I grew up. I have nothing left
I owe them nothing. But if someone is abusive, or mentally ill refusing meds with their kids,,,they owe you a childhood..,and they can't give you that.
Kathryn, I love your posts and know you are someone I respect from them. But...I don't want to shame people who choose to severe ties. For many it could be just time they need to heal. Some might not be able to verbalize the abuse. And yeah, a few are big jerks too, or even bigger. Even more "bat **** insane" then their mom.
I'm just not on the jury. As much as I have appriciated the support I have gotten, I'm going to pass it on. Not as a witch hunt, but as a soft place to land. No matter their decision.
No one, as an adult, owes anything to their family of origin. If they earned it through love, awesome. If they find a happy medium, great. I can't pretend to know all they went through.
I'm not criticizing or judging people. I'm asking people to look inside THEMSELVES - to heal themselves before they decide to throw away relationships that may be salvageable from a healthier, healed perspective.
In fact, I'm not even asking them to do that. I'm sharing what I've learned and asking for the thoughts and opinions of others. Nowhere have I said that anyone is wrong to cut someone out of their lives. How could I know that from my perspective on this forum?
I'm referring to only two therapists: my former one and the one I have now. The only reason have the one I have now is because I moved 600+ miles away. I'm in therapy for my anxiety issues, but it is very much related to this situation: how to develop self-confidence/self-esteem, recognizing that I'm entitled to feel certain ways without feeling guilty about it, learning to defend myself in difficult situations. And I am most certainly more mentally "stable" than the person I am cutting off. I brought this situation up with my therapists because I keep doubting myself and glossing over everything. Meanwhile, I'm the crutch for this person who goes through friends and jobs like tissues. I don't need the frustration, and when I look around at my other friends, I think to myself, "there are plenty of people that are normal, awesome people that don't act like this. why am I letting this person monopolize my time?" For months after my move, it was so freeing that I didn't have to interact with this person unless I was back in my old city and didn't think to avoid contact. Then this person started getting closer again and demanded to see me every time I visited and eventually came to see me where I am now. This person even said something about how nice it would be to live here and had apparently contacted a recruiter about a position here. I was followed to my old city by this person, and now there's hinting at moving here? I think not.
To repeat, I'm not criticizing your decision or your actions. I'm not judging you for seeking professional help either - I've done so myself,as I shared. And who knows, I may do so again if I feel myself needing some outside help again.
You don't owe me any explanation for your actions. I'm just asking people a general question and not even expecting answers that agree with my own conclusions. For all I know you've done exactly what you need to do at this point in your life.
I support and respect you. I also cut off my dad. He is schizophrenic. On meds he is so smart, funny, endearing. But its fleeting. And he doesn't remember the weird crazies he did as I was growing up. He won't accept boundaries. Pre-meds he asked me to come for coffee...I told him he was a 5 hour flight, he said to get on a magic bus us rich people have. I told him I had to go to work, so he laid off. On meds he cried and begged me to visit with my kids. But my dad...one minute he is being charming, 2 seconds later he is screaming paranoid nonsense. I can't have my kids experience that. I won't. I wish I could be more to him. But he and my mom took more then their share as I grew up. I have nothing left
I owe them nothing. But if someone is abusive, or mentally ill refusing meds with their kids,,,they owe you a childhood..,and they can't give you that.
I can't judge your situation. But I can say that your dad sounds a lot like my mom, and nearly exactly like my brother, who is institutionalized with schizophrenia. It apparently runs pretty rampant through my family tree on my mother's side, and I am grateful every day of my life that I don't struggle with it, like my mother, my brother, my grandmother and my aunt do or did.
I have never tolerated abuse from my mother toward my kids. But I have taken the opportunity to show my kids what healthy boundaries are. When my mother has started to twist off, I've left - with my kids. When she's said or done socially inappropriate or weird things, I've discussed them with my kids. On the flip side, I've tried to educate my children about mental illness. I have four adult kids, and one of them is probably mentally ill - he definitely has Post Traumatic Stress Disorder from 21 months in Iraq but I think it exacerbated an underlying mental issue or was made worse by one.
Anyway, I could go on and on about what my mother owes me - but I'm done with that. She is mentally ill - she cannot ever give it to me. But not only that - HER MOTHER was mentally ill. My mother became a mother very ill equipped to be one, and I honestly believe that she has done the best she could with the information and ability she has. She is a broken vessel and I am not. I am stronger. I can bear more.
When I was a child, it wasn't fair of my father to expect this of me, and I've had to deal with this and with my anger and disappointment with him as well. Now, as he deals with not only my mother's mental illness, but the effects of a stroke she's had, I am prepared to give him the support he needs - not WANTS (he WANTS me to adore him and affirm his sacrificial spirit but I insist on him behaving in a manner that doesn't enable my mother if he wants my help) but NEEDS. Now, in his seventies, he is able to talk about how difficult it's been to be married to her. He's able to vent. He's able to confess and to take responsibility for how he let his children down. It's painful, but it's also therapeautic. And now - he's more balanced than he ever has been before, and my mother is more "controlled" rather than the loose cannon wreaking havoc that she has been most of her life.
This is good for everyone. And like I said, I can take on that job now.
Not only that - I have found tenderness and care and concern and love for my very difficult mother. In fact, I can see her efforts toward normalcy and I can see her reaching in love for her grandkids and great grandkids - and since she's been "retrained" so to speak, her efforts in those relationships are actually tender and touching. It's all good.
She's difficult. She irritates the snot out of me and my dad and my adult kids. She embarrasses us sometimes - but she doesn't wield any emotional power over us anymore. But all in all, I'm so glad we worked through all this and continue to do so.
I am just encouraging others to consider this as one alternative. I think it can be very easy sometimes to run from problems, to shut people out, to close that door and we get affirmation for that from everyone. There is sometimes another alternative.
Unfortunately, not everyone achieves this outcome, even with a lifetime of trying, retraining, confronting and therapy.
It's good advice for some people. For many, it would be like banging their head against the wall.
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