Should I be worried or mad about my friend? (meeting, husband, person)
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Well a real friend if they start to see a change in behavior speaks up.
I have a long time friend who about a year ago created a scene at a movie theater(great place to do that these days). He got angry over something and got loud at the candy counter, took the candy he just bought and tossed it in the trash, than said he couldn't stay for the movie and ripped up his ticket. To say I was dumbfounded was an understatement.
He left(there was no talking to him) but later on I said his behavior and the way he talked to the candy counter girl was uncalled for. I apologized on his behalf to her. I was mortified. He had already stormed off after shouting an obscenity in the lobby.
This was not his normal demeanor, he is very easy going and polite. It all happened so quickly and out of the blue it was surreal.
How could you not say anything about that? I even told him you need to address this, because I'm not putting up with a display like that again.
Well it turns out it was related to some meds he was on, they were adjusted by the doctor. No problem since that time.
And how is the OP supposed to "just go hang out" with her, the friend keeps being a no show or cancels last minute?
Right on.
On one hand, I hear I need to "establish healthy boundaries," and on the other hand I hear that I need to just "hang out with her and let her be herself and quit messing with her personal business."
I can't establish and maintain healthy boundaries - nor can I just "hang out" - with a friend who suddenly doesn't act normally or doesn't respect boundaries or has some sort of issue - mental, emotional, or physical - that is creating difficulties and distortions of the formerly healthy relationship. At least I don't see how to do that.
Last edited by KathrynAragon; 01-12-2016 at 09:16 PM..
OK. My friend just returned my text message with a phone call. We scheduled lunch together tomorrow.
She sounded completely, 100 percent normal and happy and her usual bubbly self.
She brought up the snafu over our plans for this past week (no mention of the other incidents of bailing out or being very late and I didn't bring those up over the phone). She said "Oh my gosh, I honestly lost my daytimer and I am lost without my daily calendar - but I went and bought another one and now I know what day it is! I am SO EMBARRASSED about all that!" I told her, "Well, I'm going to be honest with you - you had me worried about you." I told her that I was worried that she had something going on, either emotional or physical, and that since I'm not particularly sensitive, I must have missed it and didn't realize till it was in my face that there was a problem - is there some sort of problem, like pain or anxiety, that I haven't known about? She said no, that she simply finds it very difficult to keep things straight in her head without her daily calendar in front of her every day.
I also told her about how easily confused I was about times and dates when I was taking vicodin for pain after surgery one time - and that while it made me sleepy, I couldn't actually SLEEP on it so I was chronically and very deeply tired, which made it hard for me to concentrate or react normally. I was saying all that to show her that she can tell me if that's what's going on with her, but she denies that, or any anxiety for that matter, so there you have it. I was hoping that me bringing it up would open up a conversation about prescription drugs but she didn't go there - she simply denied taking anything.
So...I don't know if that's the extent of it, but at least she does know that I am approachable and that I will listen to her. I am going to see if she's on time or anywhere close to on time for lunch tomorrow - or if she keeps the date.
Now my question is this - if she stands me up again or makes me wait for thirty minutes alone at the restaurant (like she's been doing lately), I wonder how I should approach that since she's denying any other issues? If there are truly no other issues going on, then frankly I don't think it's OK for her to constantly change plans on me and inconvenience me. Occasionally - I understand that. But always? I don't think that's healthy, respectful behavior between friends.
So we'll see what happens tomorrow. Maybe I will be pleasantly surprised! She sounded completely normal tonight.
OK. My friend just returned my text message with a phone call. We scheduled lunch together tomorrow.
She sounded completely, 100 percent normal and happy and her usual bubbly self.
She brought up the snafu over our plans for this past week (no mention of the other incidents of bailing out or being very late and I didn't bring those up over the phone). She said "Oh my gosh, I honestly lost my daytimer and I am lost without my daily calendar - but I went and bought another one and now I know what day it is! I am SO EMBARRASSED about all that!" I told her, "Well, I'm going to be honest with you - you had me worried about you." I told her that I was worried that she had something going on, either emotional or physical, and that since I'm not particularly sensitive, I must have missed it and didn't realize till it was in my face that there was a problem - is there some sort of problem, like pain or anxiety, that I haven't known about? She said no, that she simply finds it very difficult to keep things straight in her head without her daily calendar in front of her every day.
I also told her about how easily confused I was about times and dates when I was taking vicodin for pain after surgery one time - and that while it made me sleepy, I couldn't actually SLEEP on it so I was chronically and very deeply tired, which made it hard for me to concentrate or react normally. I was saying all that to show her that she can tell me if that's what's going on with her, but she denies that, or any anxiety for that matter, so there you have it. I was hoping that me bringing it up would open up a conversation about prescription drugs but she didn't go there - she simply denied taking anything.
So...I don't know if that's the extent of it, but at least she does know that I am approachable and that I will listen to her. I am going to see if she's on time or anywhere close to on time for lunch tomorrow - or if she keeps the date.
Now my question is this - if she stands me up again or makes me wait for thirty minutes alone at the restaurant (like she's been doing lately), I wonder how I should approach that since she's denying any other issues? If there are truly no other issues going on, then frankly I don't think it's OK for her to constantly change plans on me and inconvenience me. Occasionally - I understand that. But always? I don't think that's healthy, respectful behavior between friends.
So we'll see what happens tomorrow. Maybe I will be pleasantly surprised! She sounded completely normal tonight.
You did a great job staying friendly. Because communication is not at 100%, I would increase it just before plans take place. For example, "let me know if you are leaving." "Let me know when you get to the restaurant." If she doesn't text back, I wouldn't leave my house.
I also told her about how easily confused I was about times and dates when I was taking vicodin for pain after surgery one time - and that while it made me sleepy, I couldn't actually SLEEP on it so I was chronically and very deeply tired, which made it hard for me to concentrate or react normally. I was saying all that to show her that she can tell me if that's what's going on with her, but she denies that, or any anxiety for that matter, so there you have it. I was hoping that me bringing it up would open up a conversation about prescription drugs but she didn't go there - she simply denied taking anything.
.
And yet you were certain in your first post that she routinely takes 'nerve pills' for anxiety, which you later identified as Xanax.
Either she does or doesn't. And you have no way of knowing whether she does or not. All you can know for certain is her behaviour.
I can, however, tell you that point blank denial of an addiction problem is absolutely typical of an addiction problem. Xanax and other benzodiazepines are highly addictive. Here is a brief overview of Xanax addiction indications:
Also you can google "xanax addiction indicators" for much more information.
All you can address is her behaviour.
I would counsel strongly against "babying" her in ways such as double triple moment by moment texting to make sure she will meet you for lunch on time. That is enabling behavior, ie the healthy person modifying her own behavior to more than meet the potential addict on adult-to-adult terms. You've set a luncheon date. She either shows up or she doesn't. I'd wait five minutes in the lobby, then leave.
Then I would call later and give her an offer:
"I feel badly that you missed our luncheon date. I just can't keep setting up times to meet with you and then you not show up or call. But I do have something to tell you: I care about you.
"Whenever -- if ever -- you get it rolled around in your own mind to get squared away with whatever is going on with you that is causing you to lose track of important things, I will be there to listen and help get you squared away into addiction treatment, or counselling, or medical treatment for whatever is going on with you. No passing of judgement. Pure acceptance. And help.
"But you've got to want it. I don't care if it's pills, or whatever. This big old world is full of problems that can take anybody, anybody at all down some dark, dark roads -- and I know it. You can tell me now. Or you can call me in the middle of the night when it all closes in on you. I'll be there. But no more broken luncheon dates, no more plans forgotten. Call me when you are ready to make some major changes and reach out for help. I can't make it happen without you. But together we can. Call me when you're really ready to face the things that are going on with you."
Keep the phone numbers and addresses of local hospital drug addiction treatment centers on hand. And be ready to transport her to one of them. Immediately.
I endorse what goodmockingbird said 100%!. If your friend is addicted to Xanax, she's definitely going to deny it, and you can't force her to accept help. In the meantime you will just have to set your own boundaries, because you cannot "fix" an addict (if she is one), and they'll drag you into their drama every time.
You did a great job staying friendly. Because communication is not at 100%, I would increase it just before plans take place. For example, "let me know if you are leaving." "Let me know when you get to the restaurant." If she doesn't text back, I wouldn't leave my house.
Yes. I have to start doing something, because if I don't, then by the time she shows up or is ready or whatever, what started out as fun is now just irritating the heck out of me.
Yes. I have to start doing something, because if I don't, then by the time she shows up or is ready or whatever, what started out as fun is now just irritating the heck out of me.
Jeez, you need to let that go until you find out what's up. Putting it in perspective, your irritation over social event mishaps pales in comparison to what might be going on with her. So you don't have "fun" - that's secondary to the more pressing issue of whether she's addicted, demented or diseased (or all three, for that matter).
If you are worried about your friend, put whatever justification you may have for being so damn annoyed aside and see what you can do to support her instead of obsessing about how she's done you wrong.
She's your long time closest friend. She's not doing this maliciously. Drop it already if you really want to help her. If you must bring it up, wait until you know she's in a better place to air your grievances.
This coming on somewhat suddenly after a long term friendship would indicate there is something wrong with her. And the symptom of her standing you up or inconveniencing you is just that, a symptom, not a conscious act on her part to be disrespectful to you.
You need to give her the benefit of the doubt if you are concerned about her well being and not just yours.
And yet you were certain in your first post that she routinely takes 'nerve pills' for anxiety, which you later identified as Xanax.
Either she does or doesn't. And you have no way of knowing whether she does or not. All you can know for certain is her behaviour.
I can, however, tell you that point blank denial of an addiction problem is absolutely typical of an addiction problem. Xanax and other benzodiazepines are highly addictive. Here is a brief overview of Xanax addiction indications:
Also you can google "xanax addiction indicators" for much more information.
All you can address is her behaviour.
You're absolutely right. I do know that she regularly takes various pills because she flat out tells me that from time to time. But this may be the first time I've asked her point blank if she has been taking anything recently - and she denied it. Frankly, I don't really believe her but like you said, she's left me with one option at this point - address the behavior.
Quote:
I would counsel strongly against "babying" her in ways such as double triple moment by moment texting to make sure she will meet you for lunch on time. That is enabling behavior, ie the healthy person modifying her own behavior to more than meet the potential addict on adult-to-adult terms. You've set a luncheon date. She either shows up or she doesn't. I'd wait five minutes in the lobby, then leave.
OH I TOTALLY AGREE, which is why I told her the other day "No, I'm not going to call and remind you of something that we have planned for tomorrow. Just show up at 2 like we've discussed since you want to be there and we want you to be there." No call, no show.
Here's the really weird thing - this was an opportunity to "meet" my new grandson - which is something that SHE keeps pursuing, relentlessly in fact. She often posts on FB under pictures of him, "I can't wait to meet him!" "When do I get to hold this darling?" She has called several times wanting to go see him with me (my daughter lives an hour away so no, I'm not going to drive my friend up there and back when she can drive over here during one of my daughter's frequent visits).
So when I knew my daughter would be here with the baby, I immediately invited my friend over, and she accepted and then she wants me to call and remind her AGAIN the very next day? And then she didn't show up, then claimed confusion about the date, and called the next day cancelling coming over "because she was tired," - when she'd already missed the date! And then she said, "Oh, I really wanted to meet the baby. Next time you're going up there, we can go together." (In other words, I can come by and pick her up - which means waiting on her to get dressed first because she can't seem to manage to get dressed before I show up - and then I can drive her there and then I have to structure my day with my daughter around her schedule, and I guarantee you she will be ready to leave and go back home in about an hour when I usually stay all day when I drive up to see my daughter, and then I get to drive her home - when she has had several opportunities to make a fifteen minute drive to my house while my daughter is here, but she just hasn't been able to manage to do that.)
Frankly, I'm just not going to do that. See the thing is - recently, due to her being excessively late or making me wait on her while she gets dressed (what - you didn't know we were getting together? How come I can manage to get up, get dressed before noon, drive to your house and sit there and wait for you to choose what to wear, put on makeup, fix hair, etc - GRRRRR - by the time we're ready to go, I'm mad at her and half the fun is gone!) - it just seems like it's VERY DIFFICULT to just have a simple, enjoyable time with a woman who is usually a joy to be around. Once we "launch" whatever it is we're doing, she's a great conversationalist, lots of fun, and we can sit and talk for hours together. But why is it so damn hard to actually get to that point with her?
Quote:
Then I would call later and give her an offer:
"I feel badly that you missed our luncheon date. I just can't keep setting up times to meet with you and then you not show up or call. But I do have something to tell you: I care about you.
"Whenever -- if ever -- you get it rolled around in your own mind to get squared away with whatever is going on with you that is causing you to lose track of important things, I will be there to listen and help get you squared away into addiction treatment, or counselling, or medical treatment for whatever is going on with you. No passing of judgement. Pure acceptance. And help.
"But you've got to want it. I don't care if it's pills, or whatever. This big old world is full of problems that can take anybody, anybody at all down some dark, dark roads -- and I know it. You can tell me now. Or you can call me in the middle of the night when it all closes in on you. I'll be there. But no more broken luncheon dates, no more plans forgotten. Call me when you are ready to make some major changes and reach out for help. I can't make it happen without you. But together we can. Call me when you're really ready to face the things that are going on with you."
Keep the phone numbers and addresses of local hospital drug addiction treatment centers on hand. And be ready to transport her to one of them. Immediately.
I like a lot of this advice.
One thing I think I will do TODAY is this: I already know she is going to be late. I've already accepted that fact. Already - she said she would call me by nine this morning to let me know whether or not she was going to yoga (that changes the time we would have lunch) and already - she hasn't done that. I'm not going to call her. I have lots of things to do today, so I am going to text her about 11:45 (the latest we would be getting together based on her yoga class) and let her know I'm about to leave for the restaurant and ask her what time she will be there. If I hear back from her, I am going to text back and say "Great - I'll meet you there! I have a lot of running around to do this afternoon, so please be on time so we can get the most out of our time together." Then if she is fifteen minutes late without any sort of communication, I am just going to leave. If she communicates some sort of crazy reason for being late (again), I am going to text back and say, "Sorry - that won't work for me - I guess we need to reschedule." Either of those responses is going to freak her out and "hurt" her feelings.
By the way, another reason she gave for calling me at 9 this morning was that she wanted to touch base and let me know whether or not she "was too tired to get together" after picking up her grandkids and dropping them off at preschool this morning. WHAT? Her grandkids live 5 minutes away. This "ordeal" can not take longer than half an hour total - at 8 am. This wears her out? This little errand may make her so tired that she can't go to yoga or can't go to lunch? THAT IS RIDICULOUS. And of course, she hasn't called yet.
AS FAR AS I KNOW, SHE HAS NO CHRONIC CONDITIONS OR ILLNESSES SO WHY ON EARTH CAN'T SHE JUST SAY, "SEE YOU TOMORROW AT NOON AT ______," AND JUST BE THERE? WHY ALL THE UNCERTAINTY? WHEN WE TALKED LAST NIGHT SHE ASKED ABOUT MY PLANS FOR TODAY AND SAID "LET'S DO LUNCH!" HERSELF. SO WHY ALL THE WEIRDNESS???????
If she's relatively on time I am still going to bring it up (I gave up a long time ago expecting her to be actually ON time but I don't think it's unreasonable to expect her to be SORT OF on time - like within ten minutes or so - she lives right smack dab in the middle of town and there's no place in town that should take her more than a few minutes to get to - she's not an idiot and she knows the commute time to just about anywhere in this town). I'm going to say, "Whew, I'm glad to see you here close to our scheduled time. I have to be honest with you - it's been hard coordinating with you lately. I haven't wanted to say anything because I enjoy our casual, easy going time together, but I'd like for us both to stick closer to what we plan and respect each other's time more. It's a new year - let's make a resolution to be on time with each other in 2016!" THEN the next time she's late - and there will be a next time very soon - I WILL get up and leave, and tell her when she calls, "Look, I didn't want to do that, but honestly - I've tried talking with you about this and we had an agreement to be more respectful of each other's time and I feel like you're not honoring that."
Another thing I've thought about doing is just getting some shopping or an errand out of the way and just waiting for her to text or call me saying, "What's up - where on earth are you?" and then saying, "Well, usually I end up waiting on your for sometimes half an hour, so I figured you'd be late and that I would just get this errand out of the way." A part of me wants HER to sit in a restaurant alone for half an hour waiting on me for a change.
But this would probably be the more petty thing to do, which is why I haven't already done it. Only in my fantasies!
You're absolutely right. I do know that she regularly takes various pills because she flat out tells me that from time to time. But this may be the first time I've asked her point blank if she has been taking anything recently - and she denied it. Frankly, I don't really believe her but like you said, she's left me with one option at this point - address the behavior.
OH I TOTALLY AGREE, which is why I told her the other day "No, I'm not going to call and remind you of something that we have planned for tomorrow. Just show up at 2 like we've discussed since you want to be there and we want you to be there." No call, no show.
Here's the really weird thing - this was an opportunity to "meet" my new grandson - which is something that SHE keeps pursuing, relentlessly in fact. She often posts on FB under pictures of him, "I can't wait to meet him!" "When do I get to hold this darling?" She has called several times wanting to go see him with me (my daughter lives an hour away so no, I'm not going to drive my friend up there and back when she can drive over here during one of my daughter's frequent visits).
So when I knew my daughter would be here with the baby, I immediately invited my friend over, and she accepted and then she wants me to call and remind her AGAIN the very next day? And then she didn't show up, then claimed confusion about the date, and called the next day cancelling coming over "because she was tired," - when she'd already missed the date! And then she said, "Oh, I really wanted to meet the baby. Next time you're going up there, we can go together." (In other words, I can come by and pick her up - which means waiting on her to get dressed first because she can't seem to manage to get dressed before I show up - and then I can drive her there and then I have to structure my day with my daughter around her schedule, and I guarantee you she will be ready to leave and go back home in about an hour when I usually stay all day when I drive up to see my daughter, and then I get to drive her home - when she has had several opportunities to make a fifteen minute drive to my house while my daughter is here, but she just hasn't been able to manage to do that.)
Frankly, I'm just not going to do that. See the thing is - recently, due to her being excessively late or making me wait on her while she gets dressed (what - you didn't know we were getting together? How come I can manage to get up, get dressed before noon, drive to your house and sit there and wait for you to choose what to wear, put on makeup, fix hair, etc - GRRRRR - by the time we're ready to go, I'm mad at her and half the fun is gone!) - it just seems like it's VERY DIFFICULT to just have a simple, enjoyable time with a woman who is usually a joy to be around. Once we "launch" whatever it is we're doing, she's a great conversationalist, lots of fun, and we can sit and talk for hours together. But why is it so damn hard to actually get to that point with her?
I like a lot of this advice.
One thing I think I will do TODAY is this: I already know she is going to be late. I've already accepted that fact. Already - she said she would call me by nine this morning to let me know whether or not she was going to yoga (that changes the time we would have lunch) and already - she hasn't done that. I'm not going to call her. I have lots of things to do today, so I am going to text her about 11:45 (the latest we would be getting together based on her yoga class) and let her know I'm about to leave for the restaurant and ask her what time she will be there. If I hear back from her, I am going to text back and say "Great - I'll meet you there! I have a lot of running around to do this afternoon, so please be on time so we can get the most out of our time together." Then if she is fifteen minutes late without any sort of communication, I am just going to leave. If she communicates some sort of crazy reason for being late (again), I am going to text back and say, "Sorry - that won't work for me - I guess we need to reschedule." Either of those responses is going to freak her out and "hurt" her feelings.
By the way, another reason she gave for calling me at 9 this morning was that she wanted to touch base and let me know whether or not she "was too tired to get together" after picking up her grandkids and dropping them off at preschool this morning. WHAT? Her grandkids live 5 minutes away. This "ordeal" can not take longer than half an hour total - at 8 am. This wears her out? This little errand may make her so tired that she can't go to yoga or can't go to lunch? THAT IS RIDICULOUS. And of course, she hasn't called yet.
AS FAR AS I KNOW, SHE HAS NO CHRONIC CONDITIONS OR ILLNESSES SO WHY ON EARTH CAN'T SHE JUST SAY, "SEE YOU TOMORROW AT NOON AT ______," AND JUST BE THERE? WHY ALL THE UNCERTAINTY? WHEN WE TALKED LAST NIGHT SHE ASKED ABOUT MY PLANS FOR TODAY AND SAID "LET'S DO LUNCH!" HERSELF. SO WHY ALL THE WEIRDNESS???????
If she's relatively on time I am still going to bring it up (I gave up a long time ago expecting her to be actually ON time but I don't think it's unreasonable to expect her to be SORT OF on time - like within ten minutes or so - she lives right smack dab in the middle of town and there's no place in town that should take her more than a few minutes to get to - she's not an idiot and she knows the commute time to just about anywhere in this town). I'm going to say, "Whew, I'm glad to see you here close to our scheduled time. I have to be honest with you - it's been hard coordinating with you lately. I haven't wanted to say anything because I enjoy our casual, easy going time together, but I'd like for us both to stick closer to what we plan and respect each other's time more. It's a new year - let's make a resolution to be on time with each other in 2016!" THEN the next time she's late - and there will be a next time very soon - I WILL get up and leave, and tell her when she calls, "Look, I didn't want to do that, but honestly - I've tried talking with you about this and we had an agreement to be more respectful of each other's time and I feel like you're not honoring that."
Another thing I've thought about doing is just getting some shopping or an errand out of the way and just waiting for her to text or call me saying, "What's up - where on earth are you?" and then saying, "Well, usually I end up waiting on your for sometimes half an hour, so I figured you'd be late and that I would just get this errand out of the way." A part of me wants HER to sit in a restaurant alone for half an hour waiting on me for a change.
But this would probably be the more petty thing to do, which is why I haven't already done it. Only in my fantasies!
Wow. You aren't concerned about her in the least. Only about being right, being superior, and doing what's best for you.
Wow. You aren't concerned about her in the least. Only about being right, being superior, and doing what's best for you.
I agree. The OP is obsessing about it to the point it's actually a little scary.
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