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If you choose to accept an invitation from her again, I would be REALLY literal and concrete about it. "OK, so if you don't call by 9:30 (when she says she's calling by 9:00), I'll assume we're not meeting and I won't show up." Or even better, "From now on, I will wait 10 minutes past the time we say we're meeting and if you don't show or call/text, I will leave."
I would actually probably limit it to having her visit at your house when you're going to be there with nothing to do anyway. That way, if she finks or shows up super late, you haven't been put out. Don't offer dinner; just tea and conversation in the afternoon, for example.
These are excellent ideas.
I think I will tweak one - tell me what you think.
Part of my problem with her recently has been that though she is late, she WILL call (when she's officially late - like today she called five minutes after the time we were supposed to meet), but she will say, "Oh, I'm running late - the traffic is horrible/my dog was sick/my sister overseas called/fill in the blank but I'll be there in a few minutes!" Then that drags on for another twenty minutes. Or she'll call and say, "I'm just now pulling into the parking lot - let me find a parking space SO SORRY I'M LATE" and then ten minutes later I'm STILL sitting there waiting - and then finally I can see her coming across the parking lot and honestly, she's meandering casually, maybe checking her phone, moseying down the sidewalk pausing to look at something. GOOD GRIEF. It's insane. If I had already made someone wait 30 or 40 minutes I'd be booking across that parking lot like a bat out of hell.
So I think what I may need to do is give her one more chance, be very specific with her about the time, and then TELL HER that I hate to be so adamant but if she's not there (not if she doesn't call, but if she's not THERE standing in front of me) at 12 noon sharp, or 3 pm sharp, whatever we decide, then I am going to just leave. So don't try to call me at 11:59 or 12:05 and say "I'm running late, oh my gosh, you wouldn't believe my day, I'll just have to tell you when I get there, let's bump it to 1 o clock see you then thank you!" That's not going to work for me BECAUSE I AM ALREADY THERE and don't tell me that you didn't know you were going to be late 30 minutes ago because I'm not buying it. Not only that, I'm also not buying that she can simply never be where she says she will be when she says she will be.
As for her coming to my house, I think that's what I'll suggest - with one caveat - that she's there when she says she will be, give or take ten minutes. This goes against my grain because I'm not used to being so rigid with friends, but given her history, I think this is warranted. If she's not there, or if she calls to try to move it out, I'll just say, "Nope, sorry. Just forget it."
At that point, I guess I'm done.
This is just hard for me to accept, considering how many years we've been, not just friends, but very close friends. I can't believe it's come down to something like this.
I've read these 18 pages and after todays non meeting I would honestly say its time for a friendship break. Take her calls, answer her emails comment her facebook but stay slightly unobtainable. Too busy for lunch, family get together "we will see you when we see you".
After a while she will either carry on without you or she will realize shes missing the friendship.
Looks like the ball is in your court ........
THANK YOU for taking the time to read all of this mess. I really do appreciate it. I do value your insight.
I can do the slightly unobtainable thing. I think it may be time for that.
You are a very caring friend. I had terrible depression after the birth of my daughter. Someone I thought was a friend decided it was a good time to dump me.
Thank you. See, I do want to rule out any organic reason before I just say, "Enough is enough." I wouldn't be having such a boundaries problem if she wasn't such a close friend and if I wasn't receiving such mixed messages from her.
She might be depressed, drug addicted, or both. I'd take a step back. I'd also talk to her husband and see if he's noticed anything odd.
I agree. I am considering how to approach her husband. That is truly my last resort because she will think I am "going behind her back." I think now that she knows I am hurt and worried, now that I've been absolutely blunt about it, and made it very clear that I want to help her if I can, if she stands me up again, I am going to become "vaguely unobtainable" and reach out to her husband - not to smear her at all but to let him know I'm concerned about her and that the door is open if either of them decides to let me in on what's REALLY going on.
I think I will tweak one - tell me what you think.
Part of my problem with her recently has been that though she is late, she WILL call (when she's officially late - like today she called five minutes after the time we were supposed to meet), but she will say, "Oh, I'm running late - the traffic is horrible/my dog was sick/my sister overseas called/fill in the blank but I'll be there in a few minutes!" Then that drags on for another twenty minutes. Or she'll call and say, "I'm just now pulling into the parking lot - let me find a parking space SO SORRY I'M LATE" and then ten minutes later I'm STILL sitting there waiting - and then finally I can see her coming across the parking lot and honestly, she's meandering casually, maybe checking her phone, moseying down the sidewalk pausing to look at something. GOOD GRIEF. It's insane. If I had already made someone wait 30 or 40 minutes I'd be booking across that parking lot like a bat out of hell.
So I think what I may need to do is give her one more chance, be very specific with her about the time, and then TELL HER that I hate to be so adamant but if she's not there (not if she doesn't call, but if she's not THERE standing in front of me) at 12 noon sharp, or 3 pm sharp, whatever we decide, then I am going to just leave. So don't try to call me at 11:59 or 12:05 and say "I'm running late, oh my gosh, you wouldn't believe my day, I'll just have to tell you when I get there, let's bump it to 1 o clock see you then thank you!" That's not going to work for me BECAUSE I AM ALREADY THERE and don't tell me that you didn't know you were going to be late 30 minutes ago because I'm not buying it. Not only that, I'm also not buying that she can simply never be where she says she will be when she says she will be.
As for her coming to my house, I think that's what I'll suggest - with one caveat - that she's there when she says she will be, give or take ten minutes. This goes against my grain because I'm not used to being so rigid with friends, but given her history, I think this is warranted. If she's not there, or if she calls to try to move it out, I'll just say, "Nope, sorry. Just forget it."
At that point, I guess I'm done.
This is just hard for me to accept, considering how many years we've been, not just friends, but very close friends. I can't believe it's come down to something like this.
The only thing about her showing up late to your house is that it would be super awkward if she just shows up an hour or two late (you could tell her not to come if she calls, but what if she doesn't?). That's why I said invite her on a day when you're just puttering around. Tell her, "come anytime before 5:00 (or whatever)." This is all assuming you really want to keep up the friendship. Otherwise, limit it to phone calls or email.
To be honest, when you listed the reasons she gave for missing your planned lunch get-together, they literally screamed "severe hypothyroid" in my mind. Combined with the use of Xanax that you said she takes, it would explain every single one of her behaviors, and she honestly might be totally unaware of it.
I am wondering how many times I have to explain to you that I don't know whether to be irritated or worried. And actually, with the information I have, I think it's understandable that I feel a mix of irritation and concern.
Of course if she's sick she has the right to keep that to herself. But I also have a very reasonable, healthy right to expect my friends to treat me with common courtesy.
I am not an intrusive, nosy, prying sort of person. If anything, I'm more the other extreme (I'd make a terrible politician, spy, or diplomat because I lack that piercing insight and observation that's required of those types of jobs). So I am not "in her business." Any "in her business" that happens, happens because she has shown me her business, in other words.
Her behavior does not sound like dementia or Alzheimer's to me. I think she is trying to control you by doing these things. She sets the time and the ignores (or "forgets" it). Then you have to change your plans or sit and wait for her. Maybe she enjoys this. I don't think I'd approach her husband about this. Perhaps you can figure out what she gets out of these situations that possibly makes her feel good or in control.
I have a very good girl friend who I've been friends with for years. She and I have a very warm relationship, in spite of some differences. She is about 8 years older than me (she's in her early sixties - that's important). She is a tiny, petite, Italian woman (first generation born in the US, parents came through Ellis Island) from the northeast and is pretty liberal. I am a tall, robust "southern belle" who's politically independent and whose family has been in what is now the US since the 1630s. She has no kids - I have four, and eight grandkids. Her parents are both deceased, mine are still alive. We are like Mutt and Jeff.
Anyway, she's always been scatterbrained and more "emotionally fragile" than me - she struggles with lots of insecurities that I just simply don't have. She's more needy than me and more afraid of being alone than I am (frankly with my large family, "alone time" is a gift!). She seems to have more issues with people than I do, and her marriage is not as calm as mine, though she and her husband have been together for a long time. She seems to need more babying and more emotional support than I do, but when I do need her ear, it's there - she's a person with a generous, loving heart and I admire that about her. I guess I would say that I'm more objective and logical and just, well, uncomplicated, and she's more subjective, emotional, and has more insecurities.
Well, OK there you have all that. Now the realities of how this works:
Lately, for the past year or so, she's gotten very flaky about our get togethers. We have, for years, gotten together in person about once a week - usually lunch, some shopping, maybe a movie, doing crafts together, or some sort of project, of just sitting around drinking coffee and talking. We usually talk about once or twice a week for oh, maybe 15 minutes on the phone, often just clarifying our plans to hang out. But over the past year, she's begun doing things like claiming to have forgotten our lunch date. Often I will try to call her to remind her, and she will have either forgotten or she says, "Oh my gosh, I am running late - can you come by the house rather than meeting me at the restaurant?" Then I'll get there and I will have to wait for her to get dressed - 20, 30 minutes. Grrrrr.
She's also cancelled on me several times - on things that SHE has originally planned - with excuses like, "I'm just tired today," or "I just couldn't sleep last night and I can't seem to get going today." By the way - she sort of regularly takes sleeping pills or pills for anxiety and I just really can't relate to all that, since I never take any sort of drugs for mood or sleep - or anything else for that matter. Frankly, it irritates me when she does that.
Or - we will agree to meet somewhere - like a movie theater - and she will be VERY late. She nearly always calls and says something like, "Oh my gosh the traffic is terrible - I just left the grocery store - I had to run in and pick up something - and now I'm on Broadway," and about that time I will hear STORE NOISES AND THE CHECKOUT LINE and realize that she is still in the freaking grocery store and why on earth did she think she had to stop there when she was already going to be 20 or 30 minutes late????
Recently, she wanted to come to my house to see my newest grandchild - and my daughter was bringing him over this past Saturday. I messaged my friend a few days earlier(she responded affirmatively) on FB, with the day and time she could come over - about 2 pm Saturday. So on Friday she called me about 1 pm and said, "So what are y'all doing?" I said, "Oh, running errands - then we're going to go home and get dressed and go out for dinner." She said, "Oh...I guess I'm not going to be able to come over and see the baby then." I said, "That's tomorrow - today is Friday!" "Oh, silly me!" she said, "So they're coming over tomorrow?" I said, "Yes, and why don't you and your husband come by around 2 and have some dessert and coffee and visit for awhile?" She said, "Call me tomorrow!" and I said, "No - I might get all caught up in the visit with the grandkids - there's no need for me to call you. Just come by tomorrow about 2." "Ok, I'm excited!" she said.
You guessed it - she never came and never called. THEN TODAY (Sunday) she called and said, "Girl, I'm so tired from putting up Christmas decorations yesterday - I don't think I can come by to see the baby today." I said, "That's fine - they're not coming today - that was YESTERDAY." She then said, "Oh I really need to find my daytimer - I can't remember anything without it." I said, "You know, you ought to use the calendar on your phone - I know you carry your phone with you everywhere - you could put things in your phone and schedule a reminder," and she said, "Oh, I've tried that - it doesn't work for me," and I wanted to say, "WELL WHATEVER YOU'RE DOING ISN'T WORKING FOR YOU EITHER!"
Anyway - is she a flake or does she have some sort of mental issue going on? I don't want to embarrass her but I think I am going to have to bring this up. I mean, it shouldn't be this hard to just get together with her. I can't imagine what the problem is - I mean I CAN but I don't want to think it.
Kathryn, since I grew up in the Northeast, I know of many woman similar to your initial description to your friend. They are loving to a fault, but tend to have a casual relationship with time" if you will.
I am from a WASP/German background and my dad was (and is, in many ways) a Marine. So, we were raised differently.
Also, as others have said, you do seem like someone who would be a good and reliable friend. I have always thought of you that way.
Ethnic North Eastern women are freaky about babies. So, it is unlikely that she purposely missed this.
This woman has something going on. And it isn't her phone - if people forget to check their phones.
My suspicion and fear, is that your friend, who was already a little different from you, has a medical issue that has begun to affect her short term memory.
This is beyond ethnic, cultural or geographic.
What I would not do personally, is go to her husband. Many people become overly defensive of their spouses when asked questions such as this. Even if their marriage is not a smooth one, they are together, and love one another, on some level. He will defend her. Or at best say "Oh you know Diane. That's the way she is". Then he will tell her, they will have an argument and somehow you will look like "the bad guy".
I would instead, in your very tactful way, approach a mutual friend or long term acquaintance. She seems like a childlike person. Why on earth would she want to alienate a friend who has functioned as a big sister and solid rock? She wouldn't.
It could be that she is abusing her medications - or that what worked for her at 55, no longer works at 62, or whatever. It could be a lot of things.
However, that does not make it any less annoying or abnormal.
It's all weird and I too, would be aggravated.
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Going the husband route
