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Location: Subconscious Syncope, USA (Northeastern US)
2,365 posts, read 2,159,492 times
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Well. when I said dog immersion therapy, I went on to describe what I meant. Just like JustJulia with the bugs - show the child everything is not be feared. Reality is, even people are not to be trusted, but it doesn't benefit anyone to support a fear, and the OP stated that they knew the child needed to overcome the fear.
You don't need to spend a ton of money to do this, but in a society where both parents work, or are not together, supporting a fear may be the easy and cheap way out - otherwise, paying someone to deal with the child's fear for you is a viable option. It's better than allowing it to fester and grow and follow the poor kid throughout its life.
Understanding dog behavior can help a child recognize when their safety is at risk. The dogs that jumped onto the picnic table with her obviously didn't eat her. Dogs and children are usually like-minded in that they just want to play and have fun. It is not unreasonable for her to fear what she does not understand, we all tend to do this - fair or not. It becomes irrational when it occurs all the time, and even when something is not a threat.
Does this poor child never go to a zoo or circus? If she fears a controlled dog from a distance, it would seem to me she is going to fear almost every animal she encounters in life - and we all know one of the scariest animals on the planet is the human-animal.
The OP sees this to be a problem - one right now centered around an inconvenience. If she doesn't outgrow it, and no one takes the time to teach her, she will have a terrible life that revolves around fear.
No parent should ever want to see that happen to their child, and I believe the OP's post reflects a desire to help her.
As a child of 2 or 3, I developed an irrational fear of tomatoes in my food. "You are trying to feed me blood!"
We overcame that through more frequent exposure, and in a month or 2 I loved them and still do. The color red does not just represent blood, lol.
Meeting an untamed dog just like meeting an untamed child does not mean all of either should be characterized this way. The dog and the child are not responsible for their owner or parents neglect in that regard. To find a few parents with unruly children is not an indictment of all parents in the world, and it shouldn't be so for a pet that has been a helpful and important part of man's survival since the dawn of time.
I keep seeing the phrase "certified service dog" in this thread. I wanted to clarify that under the Americans with Disabilities Act, there is NO requirement for service animals to be certified or wear any identifying harnesses/vests. If someone has a service animal (dog) certified, it's totally voluntary, and doesn't really mean anything. By law, stores cannot turn away anyone claiming their animal is a service animal, even if it is not "certified". The employees can only ask if the dog is a service animal required because of a disability, and what task the dog is trained to perform.
He probably raises some eyebrows out in public, since I'm sure his human is an otherwise normal, energetic, physically capable 7-year old boy who doesn't look like he needs a service animal.
I keep seeing the phrase "certified service dog" in this thread. I wanted to clarify that under the Americans with Disabilities Act, there is NO requirement for service animals to be certified or wear any identifying harnesses/vests. If someone has a service animal (dog) certified, it's totally voluntary, and doesn't really mean anything. By law, stores cannot turn away anyone claiming their animal is a service animal, even if it is not "certified". The employees can only ask if the dog is a service animal required because of a disability, and what task the dog is trained to perform.
Yes they can . In Wa stores and buses have actually put up signs saying something to that effect . I do NOT recall whats said on the signs but the "emotional support" thing has gone so far here that bus drivers/ train cops ect and businesses have begun to weed them out .
They arent hard to spot . Little old lady with small biting, snapping, growling dog stuffed in basket or purse and/ or placed on seat or in cart
This is the from the current Wa Statute
If the handler answers only that the animal can sit, stay, lie down, come when called, or
do something else related to obedience and good manners, this does not indicate the
animal is trained to provide services for a disability, and the animal can be excluded.
- If the handler answers that the animal makes them feel better, helps them calm down,
eases their depression, or something similar, this would indicate that it is the animal’s
presence alone that helps the handler, and that the animal is not trained to do a task or
provide a service. Because the animal does not meet the training requirement, the
business can exclude the animal.
- If the handler answers that the animal is trained to guide them, help with balance or
mobility, alert them to a condition (either physical or situational), pick up or carry items,
remind them to take medication, get help, stabilize them during a seizure, redirect their
attention from a trigger, or do some other task or provide some service that the person is
unable to do themselves or helps with a disability, then the animal is a trained service and must be allowed.
Yes they can . In Wa stores and buses have actually put up signs saying something to that effect . I do NOT recall whats said on the signs but the "emotional support" thing has gone so far here that bus drivers/ train cops ect and businesses have begun to weed them out .
They arent hard to spot . Little old lady with small biting, snapping, growling dog stuffed in basket or purse and/ or placed on seat or in cart
This is the from the current Wa Statute
If the handler answers only that the animal can sit, stay, lie down, come when called, or
do something else related to obedience and good manners, this does not indicate the
animal is trained to provide services for a disability, and the animal can be excluded.
- If the handler answers that the animal makes them feel better, helps them calm down,
eases their depression, or something similar, this would indicate that it is the animal’s
presence alone that helps the handler, and that the animal is not trained to do a task or
provide a service. Because the animal does not meet the training requirement, the
business can exclude the animal.
- If the handler answers that the animal is trained to guide them, help with balance or
mobility, alert them to a condition (either physical or situational), pick up or carry items,
remind them to take medication, get help, stabilize them during a seizure, redirect their
attention from a trigger, or do some other task or provide some service that the person is
unable to do themselves or helps with a disability, then the animal is a trained service and must be allowed.
I think you misread my post. That supports exactly what I was saying. Stores cannot refuse *service* animals; they can refuse any animal (even emotional support animals) that are not trained to perform a specific task. But if the owner indicates that the animal is trained to perform a specific task, the animal cannot be excluded.
But bottom line, they have to take the owner's word for it, because there is no official "certification". I could tell you that my chihuahua is trained to alert me to an oncoming seizure, and by law, my animal cannot be refused in any store. Nevermind that I don't have a seizure disorder (or a chihuahua ... it was just a hypothetical)
And your last sentence is just personal opinion. I didn't grow up with dogs, yet I have respect for dogs (and all animals) and I do just fine socially. My husband has never owned a dog until we were together. He doesn't have any social disorders either. You DON'T HAVE TO BE RAISED WITH (OR AROUND) ANIMALS.
No. It is not my opinion. There have been studies that children who grow up with pets in the house - dogs and cats specifically, are more confident, socially assured, and independent.
And stop shouting at me.
You don't HAVE to be raised with pets - but it helps.
Coddling children does not help. And no, I am not suggesting that YOU were coddled.
A leashed dog jumped onto the picnic table? I don't believe she said that the dog that jumped on the table was leashed. In addition, in my every day life, I've seen many dogs unleashed outside of designated areas because their owners "trust them". I had a golden -- the biggest lovebug if there ever was one -- but he was on a leash whenever we were in public. He would never be near enough to jump up on a picnic table with a clearly anxious child.
The thread seemed to become much more about dogs being allowed in stores (which is also the thread title) so that is what I was addressing. People were acting like this is an everyday occurance that crops up in everyday life, again I disagree with that quite strongly. Although frankly, a hiking trail in a wooded area sounds like a perfect place to let a dog get some exercise off the leash.
Totally disagree with the posters on here who seem to blame the OP and her child--so typical of the mentality in this country that it's the "victim's" fault. Yeah, so if I'm afraid of a guy wielding a gun, I guess I should just get over it and let him swing the gun around because there's a lot of guns around and I gotta get desensitized to it? No, no, no, no, no, no!
It's not necessary for this child to like dogs! People can go through life and not like dogs and still be happy! YES they really can!
Dog owners seem to think that everyone MUST love dogs. sorry, it's my right not to like them. I have seen too many people with dog bites and I've heard too many stories of dogs mauling kids to death in my area.
I had 2 large black dogs charging at me and barking when I've done absolutely nothing, was merely walking through the park, and the owner just stood there and did nothing to call them back! I had a dog chase me all the way down the street when all I was doing was merely jogging past the house! he jumped on me and started biting and tore at my pants! I had dogs barking and snarling at me for no reason! It doesn't matter if you try to be friendly to the dog! some dogs are just ill mannered, ill behaved animals, owners do not take the time to train them properly and train them how to recognize a real threat from an innocent passerby.
If it were my child, I would definitely protect my child. The child DOESN'T need therapy and is NOT the wrong one here!
It's not about her liking dogs or not, it's a matter of helping her get over a debilitating fear while she is still young. Several posters already noted that her chances of being bitten are much higher if she is emitting such fear every time she is around a dog. It is also going to affect her life...will she decline sleepovers if the friend hosting has a dog? You are right it matters not whether she likes them, but it does matter if she can co-exist in the world with them without suffering through fear with every interaction.
I don't think "fault" was brought up at all, in fact it makes little sense to use it in the context of this post. We are simply disagreeing about how to handle the girl's fear.
Unless the child is going to live, work, walk and do leisure activities in places not allowing dogs, she will encounter them, either properly controlled (desirable, and the dogs' owners' responsibility) or not. The child will have a better, or at least easier, life if she can be 'cured' of her fear of dogs when young. She certainly does not have to grow up loving dogs or wanting to have one; but her life will be better if she does not carry this fear with her all her life. I would not think that the child's parents must cure her of fear of dogs, but I think, for her sake, it might be advisable to try; and I don't think it has to involve therapy with professionals.
Many years ago, I was taking my dog for a walk, unleashed at a local dog friendly area. We ran into a woman and her four or five year old daughter. My dog of that time (about 20 years ago, he was an intact male who was never pushy, or very interested, in strangers, but was calm with children) approached the child; I called him back because I didn't want any unwanted interaction. The little girl's mother quickly said that it was alright. We let the child pet my dog, who politely sat and seemed to enjoy himself; they both were relaxed.
The mother told me how, when the child had been bitten, not seriously, by a terrier, when the child was two years old. Evidently the child and the dog were both playing with the same stick and the dog was excited, and the child was bitten. The mother said that she did not pursue any kind of lawsuit or payment from the dog owner because she viewed the incident as an accident; the bite was not serious and her medical insurance covered the visit to the doctor. Unsurprisingly, the child was afraid of dogs after the incident.
The mother told me that she was determined that her daughter not grow up afraid of dogs; even though she had no plans to have a dog in their home. So, whenever the mother was walking with her daughter in dog-friendly woods and parks, and saw a dog under control and/or leashed, she herself would go up to the dog, and with the owner's permission, enthusiastically praise and pet the dog, so her daughter could see that the mother was enjoying the experience. She told me that eventually her daughter began to come up to other dogs along with her mother, and did lose her fear of dogs.
Certainly I never would guessed that the child had ever been afraid of dogs. I always thought that the mother was a very smart person, and her method seemed like a sensible one - although I don't know if it would work in every case. (what I especially liked about it was that the child was not pushed or forced to interact with dogs, but, because of her mother's example, came forward on her own to let go of her fear) It goes without saying that I was closely watching my own dog's body language and behavior with the child; as I would do with any dog I have owned.
I don't live in the suburbs, but in a semi-urban area that is quite close to a city. I see dogs everywhere outside; but hardly ever in a store (other than a pet supply store). I have seen a service dog or two in grocery stores; they were very well behaved and were leashed, and I restrained myself from asking to pet them (since they were working) and complimented the owner on the dogs (which is second nature to me, but I do respect the skills of service dogs and what goes into training and maintaining those skills).
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