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Old 02-20-2011, 07:03 PM
 
Location: Ohio/Sarasota
913 posts, read 2,364,870 times
Reputation: 447

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crew Chief View Post
Wrightflyer, I think band is a wonderful activity and is as relevant as any other class. My wife's experience is that her band students get pulled out of class too often for concerts and other band-related activities. Taken with all the other field trips and other interruptions, teaching to her lessson plan can sometimes be a real problem. She feels the same way about any other teacher that feels their time is more important than hers.

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That's a lack of leadership issue. The school principal can put a stop to it tomorrow. But generally it's a question of politics. The band, or whoever, goes out into the community and shows everyone that everything is great at the school. "Look at that great band, we have a great school, we need to pass the levy."
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Old 02-20-2011, 07:12 PM
 
Location: Ohio/Sarasota
913 posts, read 2,364,870 times
Reputation: 447
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crew Chief View Post
It's still early in the process for SB 5 to be passed so, hopefully, it will end up as something more acceptable than the suggested "strip public employees of their most of their rights" form than it's in now. Yes, public employees (including legislators) should not be exempt from helping to shoulder economic pain. But we must be ever-vigilant that unions don't go the way of the Dodo bird and that the Robber Barons are back to their old tricks again...

I'm not sure where you heard that info from, but I heard it might be put to a vote on Wednesday. If you have other info, let me know.

Here is the thing that really bothers me about this whole thing. Did the state senators or gov go to the public employee unions and talk about the financial crisis in detail? Did they ask for specific financial concessions? It would seem to me that the first step should have been an attempt at collaboration with the unions. These people are not unreasonable. In fact, many of these public employees have already taken pay reductions. Unless your goal is not the financial welfare of the school systems and your goal is to kill the unions. Then you would proceed with something like SB5.
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Old 02-21-2011, 04:26 AM
 
6,351 posts, read 21,554,784 times
Reputation: 10009
Quote:
Originally Posted by davery5872 View Post
I'm not sure where you heard that info from, but I heard it might be put to a vote on Wednesday. If you have other info, let me know.

Here is the thing that really bothers me about this whole thing. Did the state senators or gov go to the public employee unions and talk about the financial crisis in detail? Did they ask for specific financial concessions? It would seem to me that the first step should have been an attempt at collaboration with the unions. These people are not unreasonable. In fact, many of these public employees have already taken pay reductions. Unless your goal is not the financial welfare of the school systems and your goal is to kill the unions. Then you would proceed with something like SB5.
Actually, Davery, I'm not exactly sure when a vote on SB 5 will take place; The optimist in me hopes that more discussion will take place before it is voted on. I agree with you; had lawmakers come to the unions and put their cards on the table, I'm sure an amicable settlement would've been a lot easier to get.

I'm inclined (FWIW) to think that the R politicians are using the financial crises to bash the unions regardless of whether some sort of middle ground could be reached. At least my study of kasich seems to suggest that.
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Old 02-21-2011, 04:28 AM
 
6,351 posts, read 21,554,784 times
Reputation: 10009
Quote:
Originally Posted by davery5872 View Post
That's a lack of leadership issue. The school principal can put a stop to it tomorrow. But generally it's a question of politics. The band, or whoever, goes out into the community and shows everyone that everything is great at the school. "Look at that great band, we have a great school, we need to pass the levy."
Exactly...
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Old 02-21-2011, 04:53 AM
 
Location: cleveland
2,365 posts, read 4,382,729 times
Reputation: 1645
bottom line the states cannot afford/sustain the funding.. imo its not the teachers pay that is the problem its the benefits. teachers pay less than 1% into their pension, but receive $50-60,000 a yr retirement. thats un heard of in the private sector. health benifits almost the same(less than 5% paid into by teacher). why should i pay mine and theirs?
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Old 02-21-2011, 06:02 AM
 
Location: Ohio/Sarasota
913 posts, read 2,364,870 times
Reputation: 447
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1watertiger View Post
bottom line the states cannot afford/sustain the funding.. imo its not the teachers pay that is the problem its the benefits. teachers pay less than 1% into their pension, but receive $50-60,000 a yr retirement. thats un heard of in the private sector. health benifits almost the same(less than 5% paid into by teacher). why should i pay mine and theirs?
I'm not sure where you are getting that data, but it is wrong. Teachers pay 10% of their salary into their retirement system and it is soon going to 13%. In the private sector, the employee is currently paying 4.2%. I would hypothesize that if someone in the private sector, with their higher salaries, paid an additional 9% into an IRA, they would retire with an amount that would be significantly more the $50K a year. There are some states where teachers do not pay any into their retirement system, Florida is one of them, but not in Ohio. The amount a teacher pay for health care is a local district issue. It is not a state wide percentage and I am not sure where your info came from. In my research most teacher's pay between 10-20% for their health care. Some of these are hard to compute, since they have gone to an HSA system. If you wish to compare teacher pay and benefits with the private sector, please understand that teachers have at least a bachelors degree, and most have a master's degree. Make sure you compare workers in the private sector with college degrees.
Can you please forward where your received your data?
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Old 02-21-2011, 06:25 AM
 
Location: NKY's Campbell Co.
2,107 posts, read 5,094,395 times
Reputation: 1303
Quote:
Originally Posted by davery5872 View Post
I'm not sure where you are getting that data, but it is wrong. Teachers pay 10% of their salary into their retirement system and it is soon going to 13%. In the private sector, the employee is currently paying 4.2%. I would hypothesize that if someone in the private sector, with their higher salaries, paid an additional 9% into an IRA, they would retire with an amount that would be significantly more the $50K a year. There are some states where teachers do not pay any into their retirement system, Florida is one of them, but not in Ohio. The amount a teacher pay for health care is a local district issue. It is not a state wide percentage and I am not sure where your info came from. In my research most teacher's pay between 10-20% for their health care. Some of these are hard to compute, since they have gone to an HSA system. If you wish to compare teacher pay and benefits with the private sector, please understand that teachers have at least a bachelors degree, and most have a master's degree. Make sure you compare workers in the private sector with college degrees.
Can you please forward where your received your data?
I'm thinking he is looking at Wisconson's numbers. Give me a minute and I'll get back to you with a link and possibly one for Ohio as well.
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Old 02-21-2011, 06:29 AM
 
48 posts, read 112,489 times
Reputation: 90
Can't speak for the private sector numbers but the public sector numbers are spot on. I pay 10% towards retirement and the amount paid towards healthcare depends on what was negotiated with the local board.
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Old 02-21-2011, 06:38 AM
 
Location: NKY's Campbell Co.
2,107 posts, read 5,094,395 times
Reputation: 1303
In here. State of Wisconsin - Department of Employee Trust Funds is all the info on Wisconsin's retirement system. UW-Madison has a website Wisconsin Retirement System that shows certain contribution amounts. I'm not an expert at retirement contributions, but it looks like the page shows 5% is the contribution for retirement. Haven't found anything on Health Care.

If the links don't work, it looks like it is 5% of employees salary with matching from the employer.

Now onto Ohio.
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Old 02-21-2011, 06:45 AM
 
Location: NKY's Campbell Co.
2,107 posts, read 5,094,395 times
Reputation: 1303
From Worthington Education Association STATE TEACHERS RETIREMENT SYSTEM (http://www.worthingtonea.org/retirement/strsfaq.htm - broken link) Number 6. Bullitpoint 4 shows what the state contribution for retirement and health care is for the STRS of Ohio.

The retirement pension contribution is 10% (up from 9.3% as of 2003) but the health care cost is only 1% which was adjusted downward for the .7% increase in pension contribution.

Here's the official STRS homepage, but goodluck finding anything, cause it isn't very user friendly.

https://www.strsoh.org/default.htm
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