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Vaccinations are just one very small part of the total Preventative Care Package. True? If one person can be prevented from geting breast cancer, cancer, etc., it is medicine's duty to before anyone gets sick or dies from anything. Sorry, to get OT on this thread, but the issue goes way beyond.
What I am getting at is probably the subject for another whole thread.
Edit: Eradication of measles in the US is irrelevant. Was eradication in the WORLD ever achieved? Do we become isolationists to achieve US eradication?
"Of 6,790 cases with available data, 347 patients had been hospitalized, including 275 (79%) who were aged <12 months, of whom 214 (62% of those hospitalized) were aged <4 months. Among hospitalized infants aged <12 months with complete information, 33% required intensive care; few (24%) had received any doses of diphtheria, tetanus, and acellular pertussis vaccine (DTaP) (Table 2). One death was reported in an infant aged 5 weeks at the time of illness onset. Two additional fatal cases in infants who became ill in 2013 were also reported in early 2014; both were aged <5 weeks at the time of illness onset, and one was hospitalized for more than a year before succumbing to pertussis-related complications."
Does childhood vaccination achieve herd immunity for this?
It's really a false argument to say that just because it's not as important as other things in the world, whether cancer, the national deficit, or ISIS, we should disregard it. This is important, and it does matter - especially when we have the tools readily available to address it and choose as a society not to use them.
Talk to anyone with medical expertise, and they'll tell you that what to you seems like just a small percentage of people foregoing vaccines actually has material consequences to public health. Yes, it's a relatively small percentage now, but as the trend continues like this, preventable diseases with sometimes serious complications can and will regain a foothold in this nation. And if and when that happens and we scale to thousands or tens of thousands of cases, you will see the costs to the healthcare system grow, and you will start to see deaths and life-long harm, particularly to the young and immune-compromised.
You can be flippant about it if it makes you feel clever, but those who have small babies or immune-compromised spouses die because a preventable disease like this regained a foothold and was able to spread thanks to people who chose not to vaccinate will see things differently. It's not going to be just a joke to them like it is to you.
And you think forcing this small percentage is the answer? You think hyping it up with fear so that enough people start hating other who don't vaccinate and all get together and force them to do it against their will?
You have a lot of nerve. It's gross in my opinion actually but you obviously feel justified.
I have an alternative, inform people of the misconceptions, fund long term studies so that these parents feel confident vaccinating. Then allow them the freedom you allow others to do. So far we have pretty good rates of vaccinating by informing the public. Imagine if we did more long term vaccine studies? Imagine if the FDA stopped taking funds from the Pharma companies? Imagine if less medical mistakes happened? The more you address the fear with real information, the better outcome you'll have for vaccination. There are conflicting reports on medication all the time, lawsuits, injury. Our food is full of chemicals deemed unsafe, companies who make vaccines are being sued for bad practices. Why don't you think of the big picture?
You are stuck on a small portion of the issue, and you are just making people prejudice of others with a different view. Nothing good will come of it. History shows us this.
Your goal isn't what I have a problem with, it's your approach I find laughable. You will only hurt others with this approach, and I fail to see what your real objective is. To save lives? Or to push an agenda? Do you think the other things anti vax parents do are good for their kids? Like low chemical diet, fruits, veggies, exercise, clean air, low anxiety, climate responsibility, social awareness? If you take a look at some of these people you will realize they care deeply about their kids and others. They simply want more information about what they put into their kids. Try to be more understanding, and in that you might find a way to take care of your agenda and their fears at the same time. IMO, of course.
Or you could go around acting like a jack Ess and scaring people into groups that hate anti vaxers and get them herded into a pile and force a vaccine in their kids if you feel that strongly about it. But, I will surely protest the latter because I don't think it's necessary and I do think it will prove more harmful than good.
Does childhood vaccination achieve herd immunity for this?
Vaccinating everyone does. That means adults keeping up with their vaccines, too. No one who understands immunology has ever said otherwise.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoppySead
And you think forcing this small percentage is the answer? You think hyping it up with fear so that enough people start hating other who don't vaccinate and all get together and force them to do it against their will?
You have a lot of nerve. It's gross in my opinion actually but you obviously feel justified.
I have an alternative, inform people of the misconceptions, fund long term studies so that these parents feel confident vaccinating. Then allow them the freedom you allow others to do. So far we have pretty good rates of vaccinating by informing the public. Imagine if we did more long term vaccine studies? Imagine if the FDA stopped taking funds from the Pharma companies? Imagine if less medical mistakes happened? The more you address the fear with real information, the better outcome you'll have for vaccination. There are conflicting reports on medication all the time, lawsuits, injury. Our food is full of chemicals deemed unsafe, companies who make vaccines are being sued for bad practices. Why don't you think of the big picture?
You are stuck on a small portion of the issue, and you are just making people prejudice of others with a different view. Nothing good will come of it. History shows us this.
Your goal isn't what I have a problem with, it's your approach I find laughable. You will only hurt others with this approach, and I fail to see what your real objective is. To save lives? Or to push an agenda? Do you think the other things anti vax parents do are good for their kids? Like low chemical diet, fruits, veggies, exercise, clean air, low anxiety, climate responsibility, social awareness? If you take a look at some of these people you will realize they care deeply about their kids and others. They simply want more information about what they put into their kids. Try to be more understanding, and in that you might find a way to take care of your agenda and their fears at the same time. IMO, of course.
Or you could go around acting like a jack Ess and scaring people into groups that hate anti vaxers and get them herded into a pile and force a vaccine in their kids if you feel that strongly about it. But, I will surely protest the latter because I don't think it's necessary and I do think it will prove more harmful than good.
Why is talking about the dangers of vaccine preventable illnesses fear mongering but insisting that vaccines are dangerous because they cause autism (they don't) not?
The information about vaccines is there. They have been studied out the wazoo. The autism issue is settled. It never happened. Wakefield is not a misunderstood martyr; he is a discredited greedy fraud. Throwing money at studying vaccines and autism just wastes funds that could be used to find the real physiology behind autism, which is more and more being defined as a genetic issue. Unfortunately, some parents of autistic children do not want to hear that. They want Someone or Something to blame other than the fact that their children were born with autism and that it just takes some time to become apparent that they have it.
Yes, we understand that parents who do not vaccinate love their kids and try to take care of them. However, not listening to the facts about vaccines because you do not like the way the facts are presented makes you look irrational. The psychologists can tell us why you do it. We know you will not change your mind. That's OK. What we can do here is provide information to people who still have an open mind.
"When Seth Mnookin began his definitive book The Panic Virus on the anti-vaccine movement, he was inspired to do so by encountering the beliefs among 'our peers… they lived in college towns like Ann Arbor and Austin or sophisticated urban centers like Boston and Brooklyn; they drove Priuses and shopped at Whole Foods. They tended to be self-satisfied, found it difficult to conceive of a world in which their voices were not heard, and took pride in being intellectually curious, thoughtful, and rational.' ”
Vaccinating everyone does. That means adults keeping up with their vaccines, too. No one who understands immunology has ever said otherwise.
Why is talking about the dangers of vaccine preventable illnesses fear mongering but insisting that vaccines are dangerous because they cause autism (they don't) not?
The information about vaccines is there. They have been studied out the wazoo. The autism issue is settled. It never happened. Wakefield is not a misunderstood martyr; he is a discredited greedy fraud. Throwing money at studying vaccines and autism just wastes funds that could be used to find the real physiology behind autism, which is more and more being defined as a genetic issue. Unfortunately, some parents of autistic children do not want to hear that. They want Someone or Something to blame other than the fact that their children were born with autism and that it just takes some time to become apparent that they have it.
Yes, we understand that parents who do not vaccinate love their kids and try to take care of them. However, not listening to the facts about vaccines because you do not like the way the facts are presented makes you look irrational. The psychologists can tell us why you do it. We know you will not change your mind. That's OK. What we can do here is provide information to people who still have an open mind.
An open mind to what exactly? Bash people who aren't up to date on their vaccines? Bash people for being selective? Bash the anti vaxers? Gather people who want to limit this small group of Americans medical care, prevent them from seeing doctors, prevent them from going to school, force them by law to vaccinate or let them be outcasts? How does that really help your cause?
I don't think it helps anyone, I think it just creates prejudice, name calling and hatred. There are other proven ways of encouraging vaccination and we already have convinced 91% of Americans to vaccinate and that number is only going up, not down. The small outbreaks every year, does not an epidemic make, it just makes good fear headlines for the news to make a buck off of.
Here is a reasonable approach, this will encourage more vaccines then your hyper-fear bowl parties.
(The vast majority of American babies are getting the vaccines they need to protect them from serious illnesses, federal health officials said Thursday.
More than 90 percent of children are getting the vaccines that prevent measles, mumps, and rubella (MMR); polio; hepatitis B and chickenpox (varicella), according to the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.
"Nationally, vaccination among children 19 to 35 months of age remains stable or has increased for all of the recommended vaccines, and that's really good news," said Dr. Melinda Wharton, acting director of CDC's National Center for Immunization and Respiratory Diseases.
"There is still room for improvement," she added. "Coverage is not as high as we would like it to be for doses of vaccines and boosters given in the second year of life."
Wharton suggested one way to improve vaccine coverage could be with electronic medical records to help doctors keep track of when vaccinations are needed.
While some parents are reluctant to have their children vaccinated, or don't believe in vaccines at all, Wharton doesn't see this as a major problem. "The number of children who do not get any vaccine remains low and stable at less than 1 percent," she said.
No way you could have an epidemic of Measles in a country with a 91% vax rate. You are the one who is irrational. A mad army of parents forcing this down peoples throats is going to get the exact opposite reaction you are looking for. Americans aren't going to be keen on having parental rights stripped by a bunch of angry irrational frightened parents hounding their congressman.
Not all parents limit vaccines because of autism and you know it. That's just your fall back line. Stop creating a brawl between parents and just put out good solid information. You will have a better turnout. No need to promote hatred for certain groups of Americans just because you believe they need a shrink or are stupid. Saying that stuff just makes you look bad, not them.
I'm just one of those people who won't jump on your bandwagon, doesn't mean I'm wrong it just means I don't believe in your approach. Like I have said in previous posts, it's not the goal I object to it's the means at which you are willing to go for your agenda. I vaccinate, but that doesn't mean my decision for my kids is the one I think all parents should have. You can't control other people, especially when it comes to shooting something into their kids bodies. You talk to anyone who disagrees on your approach like they are anti vax crazy nut jobs. You couldn't be MORE wrong.
Like I said, continue on with the fight but I might add a bit of advice, in my opinion you should cool it down on the stereotyping and fear crapping all over people. I think every adult knows the data and stats from the CDC on vaccines by now. We got it! You can stop encouraging people to hate on those very few, and I mean a very few people who actually don't vaccinate because they don't believe in vaccines.
Speaking of "irrational", did you read the OP? How this whole issue was presented and framed?
The pro vaxers are on a head hunt. Yes, it's as irrational as it gets given our current vaccine rates. They just enjoy hating people, blaming them and well, just threatening them with lack of educations, medical care and government mandates. Twist their tail a bit.
You know, sort of like our political system. Tit against Tat. lmao
Everyone inbetween is on chill street.
And you think forcing this small percentage is the answer? You think hyping it up with fear so that enough people start hating other who don't vaccinate and all get together and force them to do it against their will?
You have a lot of nerve. It's gross in my opinion actually but you obviously feel justified.
I have an alternative, inform people of the misconceptions, fund long term studies so that these parents feel confident vaccinating. Then allow them the freedom you allow others to do. So far we have pretty good rates of vaccinating by informing the public. Imagine if we did more long term vaccine studies? Imagine if the FDA stopped taking funds from the Pharma companies? Imagine if less medical mistakes happened? The more you address the fear with real information, the better outcome you'll have for vaccination. There are conflicting reports on medication all the time, lawsuits, injury. Our food is full of chemicals deemed unsafe, companies who make vaccines are being sued for bad practices. Why don't you think of the big picture?
You are stuck on a small portion of the issue, and you are just making people prejudice of others with a different view. Nothing good will come of it. History shows us this.
Your goal isn't what I have a problem with, it's your approach I find laughable. You will only hurt others with this approach, and I fail to see what your real objective is. To save lives? Or to push an agenda? Do you think the other things anti vax parents do are good for their kids? Like low chemical diet, fruits, veggies, exercise, clean air, low anxiety, climate responsibility, social awareness? If you take a look at some of these people you will realize they care deeply about their kids and others. They simply want more information about what they put into their kids. Try to be more understanding, and in that you might find a way to take care of your agenda and their fears at the same time. IMO, of course.
Or you could go around acting like a jack Ess and scaring people into groups that hate anti vaxers and get them herded into a pile and force a vaccine in their kids if you feel that strongly about it. But, I will surely protest the latter because I don't think it's necessary and I do think it will prove more harmful than good.
That, yes. Our food in the United States is almost all garbage. As for vaxing, parents' concerns about mercury, IQ, MS, etc., must be more effectively countered. The concerns of parents must not be summarily dismissed as "anti-science" and quackery. Right now, some parents have little faith in what is written for a variety of reasons.
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You can't control other people, especially when it comes to shooting something into their kids bodies. You talk to anyone who disagrees on your approach like they are anti vax crazy nut jobs. You couldn't be MORE wrong. 
You can stop encouraging people to hate on those very few, and I mean a very few people who actually don't vaccinate because they don't believe in vaccines. 
And ANOTHER liberal, yoga-mat user supports the anti-vax agenda!
