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Not that I don't agree with the idea that parents need to be careful and keep an eye out for their adult children, but you are way overcomplicating the situation.
IMO, as I stated earlier this issue is primarily cultural with a decent smattering of "average guy with hot girl syndrome". For the latter, you can see the same thing between two American Christians and a girl can be just as guilty as a guy of being clingy and overbearing. It all comes down to one having the impression they are playing out of their league and feeling like they need to hold on for dear life or risk losing the other person.
On the former cultural difference, I think that is what's primarily at play. Culturally he comes from a society where men and women tend to not have platonic relationships. A man pursues woman by courting/wooing her to prove his worth. Americans don't work that way and most are more apt to take the approach of casual dating and playing the field until they find the "one". The two approaches don't necessarily mesh well as the courter wants affirmation while the casual dater will keep stringing them along keeping their options open. The idea of casual dating is probably a pretty foreign concept to him.
The irony is that what he is doing in someways is very old fashioned and I would think more people would find it cute to an extent. Yes, the whole FB and messages while she's in Europe thing reeks of insecurity, but is not uncommon. However, the dinners, getting her favorite ice cream, buying concert tickets, really just harkens back to a time when men tried to earn a womans affections by proving they cared and paid attention to their interests. The funny part is that BF1 the OP mentioned that treated her daughter kind of crappy got a one year relationship out of her. This guy is going out of his way to treat her what he considers to be "right" and is just getting strung along.
How true, that was a very different situation altogether and a very different political climate that they entered into. As with most things the truth most likely lies somewhere in the middle of the two accounts with Betty dramatizing and embellishing the story and her husband Moody downplaying it.
I still find it ironic that people see movies of the week "based on a true story" and fail to realize that they aren't entirely true and often grossly embelished to sell the story.
BF1 did not have a year as bf and gf, they were friends/buddies for that period, then decided they'd try to see if they could be more. It didn't last more than 5 weeks! Now he no longer speaks to her. A good friendship that should not have been mixed with anything more, and he couldn't handle being told it was not working.
And yes, it is the type of old fashioned wooing that this boy is doing, BUT if it's cultural to plan ahead and pressure someone to hold on until they meet again, and to have contact all hours of the day whether by FB, email and telephone, regardless of where the girl is, that goes beyond old fashioned, does it not? Wanting an address, and asking for weeks before she left the States, needing to know exactly where she'd be next, all the details of her day (she used to send a few lines, but it got hard to keep up as we travelled more), and then complaining that she wasn't SHARING enough. Is that still old fashioned?
At first I thought he was very thoughtful. Thought it nice that he cared about her likes and dislikes, but as I keep saying, the pressure to be told every tiny detail, and she had mentioned this to me, which is why I became more alarmed, is what I can't get over.
I was separated from my husband for months when we first started dating, and we wrote letters, but I didn't have the time nor the energy to give every tiny detail to him of my days. I would be bored stiff having to relate that to anyone.
Sure he might just be the type who is very sentimental and emotional and for him, knowing exactly what was eaten for breakfast, when she showered, what she was wearing, how she was feeling, who she talked to, saw, or visited that day might have been of interest, but I see that differently.
Cultural differences or not, I see a control freak in the making, and God help me if I am wrong, I cannot stop thinking of how this relationship could end up in the future. Seriously, maybe because I am sick right now, that I am having a harder time, but I sense something that keeps nagging at me.
His intent on producing "his side" of the story is that he wanted his daughter to know his thoughts and to be able to contact her, something he has been barred from doing.
Like I said in my other post, I'm sure the truth is somewhere in the middle between the two stories.
It's like the discrimination against fathers that happens in American courts multiplied by a thousand. Everyone is making a big deal that he would have gotten custody in Iran. Meanwhile, she got custody in America and he never saw his daughter again. It's a double edged sword that goes both ways. When it comes to custody of children, Iranians equally fear marrying Americans as much as Americans fear marrying Iranians.
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Originally Posted by h886
Although, since the daughter is now in her 30's (and was well into her 20's before her father passed away a few years back), she could have presumably contacted him, if she had wanted to. If she chose not to, it is what it is. No adult child should be forced to talk to their parent if they do not want to.
Until the documentary, she only had her mother's side of the story to influence her decision. He died three years (1999) before the documentary was released (2002).
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Originally Posted by h886
I don't know what the truth was since I wasn't there. However, I can't imagine why anyone would have gone to the trouble and expense to have herself and her daughter smuggled out of Iran if her husband had been willing to fly them home. If there were marital troubles and she wanted a divorce, then since they met, married, lived and had their daughter in the US, that is the location that should have been used to determine custody, the divorce settlement, or anything else. One does not get to change the venue to another country simply because they've had a change of heart about where they'd like to live. If he chose not to give his permission for his daughter to return to the US (in order to wield power by utilizing the sexist court system in Iran), that in and of itself is an abuse.
Reverse everything you said. Imagine an American mother refusing for a child to return to Iran. People wouldn't call that abuse. Now imagine an Iranian father smuggling a child out of the United States. People would say he was a kidnapper. He faced the very same risks she faced----losing custody of his daughter in a foreign country's court. She won.
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Originally Posted by Parisbreakfast
I was separated from my husband for months when we first started dating, and we wrote letters, but I didn't have the time nor the energy to give every tiny detail to him of my days. I would be bored stiff having to relate that to anyone.
Sure he might just be the type who is very sentimental and emotional and for him, knowing exactly what was eaten for breakfast, when she showered, what she was wearing, how she was feeling, who she talked to, saw, or visited that day might have been of interest, but I see that differently.
You're age is showing! That was back in letter writing days (clearly since you have a daughter in college!). My first husband and I were separated for 9 months after marriage. There's only so much you can write by hand. But modern technology makes it much easier for people to communicate from great distances---or even just throughout their day in the same city. It's totally normal today for kids to keep in constant contact with their bf/gf and share every single thing happening throughout their days. I have an 18 year old living with me. He is constantly in contact with his gf. I'll ask what they can possibly have to say to each other, what are they talking about. He responds, "She's just telling me what she's doing and I'm telling her what I'm doing." This is the NORM for the younger generation. I fear you may be reading too much into this.
Although, since the daughter is now in her 30's (and was well into her 20's before her father passed away a few years back), she could have presumably contacted him, if she had wanted to. If she chose not to, it is what it is. No adult child should be forced to talk to their parent if they do not want to.
I don't know what the truth was since I wasn't there. However, I can't imagine why anyone would have gone to the trouble and expense to have herself and her daughter smuggled out of Iran if her husband had been willing to fly them home. If there were marital troubles and she wanted a divorce, then since they met, married, lived and had their daughter in the US, that is the location that should have been used to determine custody, the divorce settlement, or anything else. One does not get to change the venue to another country simply because they've had a change of heart about where they'd like to live. If he chose not to give his permission for his daughter to return to the US (in order to wield power by utilizing the sexist court system in Iran), that in and of itself is an abuse.
Obviously someone who thinks Iran is like the usa . Please people travel to a foreign country before you give an opinion . I have traveled and I have seen alot of foreign countries and it sure makes you appreciate the freedoms you do have .
Until the documentary, she only had her mother's side of the story to influence her decision. He died three years (1999) before the documentary was released (2002).
The fact of the matter is that the mother and father chose to date, marry, have their child and raise the child for 4 years in the US. Therefore the US is the country that should have had jurisdiction for any custody/divorce proceedings. Had they dated, married, had their child and raised her for 4 years in Iran, then I agree it should have been up to Iranian courts to decide. However, that was not the case.
Thanks for your insight. She told him to stop pressuring her because she was busy doing things. I didn't tell her to do that. I saw her being ill and very tense, and her phone going off all the time, and instead of her looking serene and in love, she was getting more upset.
You don't think it's strange to buy tickets in early April for September? Tickets that are costly? None of the other boys would have done something like that. She was excited because none of them ever thought to do it, but I keep saying, he is planning way ahead. I can honestly tell you that based on what I read, he is too intense and he will end up getting hurt because he's the one trying for a serious relationship right away, and she is saying take it one day at a time. He graduates in December, and unless he gets into the Masters Program, he has to go back to Indonesia. Why bother getting so intense now???
My concern too is the cultural difference. Maybe Asian men are intense in general? I don't know. We haven't had any in the family before, so have no idea what their dating style is like.
And no, she is really not addicted to the internet. She doesn't spend hours on FB like some of her friends. He wanted hours of phone conversations, and hours on FB and email. I heard her on the bus describing the noise, and saying it was a bad time to call, and trying to give a decent time to call, but it didn't work for him. I heard her saying that it really was not good to call when we were out because she didn't like describing what she was seeing, and giving such details. She said that to him, but he wanted every detail. Maybe I've forgotten being that silly when I was younger.
Afterwards she said to me that talking on the phone was something she found boring. Texting was better. I know she does not even talk to her friends on the phone while at home. She prefers to text because it does not take up as much time. So that was hard on her, changing to spending a lot of time talking about the castles, the rivers, the history of whatever she was looking at. Poor sod wanted to be with her I guess.
I'm with you, Mom. Stay vilgilant and forget that privacy crap. When she's paying her own rent she can have privacy. She should give him back his gifts and tell him that she was wrong to accept them. Do not abdicate!
BF1 did not have a year as bf and gf, they were friends/buddies for that period, then decided they'd try to see if they could be more. It didn't last more than 5 weeks! Now he no longer speaks to her. A good friendship that should not have been mixed with anything more, and he couldn't handle being told it was not working.
And yes, it is the type of old fashioned wooing that this boy is doing, BUT if it's cultural to plan ahead and pressure someone to hold on until they meet again, and to have contact all hours of the day whether by FB, email and telephone, regardless of where the girl is, that goes beyond old fashioned, does it not? Wanting an address, and asking for weeks before she left the States, needing to know exactly where she'd be next, all the details of her day (she used to send a few lines, but it got hard to keep up as we travelled more), and then complaining that she wasn't SHARING enough. Is that still old fashioned?
At first I thought he was very thoughtful. Thought it nice that he cared about her likes and dislikes, but as I keep saying, the pressure to be told every tiny detail, and she had mentioned this to me, which is why I became more alarmed, is what I can't get over.
I was separated from my husband for months when we first started dating, and we wrote letters, but I didn't have the time nor the energy to give every tiny detail to him of my days. I would be bored stiff having to relate that to anyone.
Sure he might just be the type who is very sentimental and emotional and for him, knowing exactly what was eaten for breakfast, when she showered, what she was wearing, how she was feeling, who she talked to, saw, or visited that day might have been of interest, but I see that differently.
Cultural differences or not, I see a control freak in the making, and God help me if I am wrong, I cannot stop thinking of how this relationship could end up in the future. Seriously, maybe because I am sick right now, that I am having a harder time, but I sense something that keeps nagging at me.
Sorry. I was being dyslexic. But I believe a lifetime of being influenced by a parent's opinion about another parent is very powerful.
Quote:
Originally Posted by h886
The fact of the matter is that the mother and father chose to date, marry, have their child and raise the child for 4 years in the US. Therefore the US is the country that should have had jurisdiction for any custody/divorce proceedings. Had they dated, married, had their child and raised her for 4 years in Iran, then I agree it should have been up to Iranian courts to decide. However, that was not the case.
This is just your opinion. There is no international law dictating jurisdiction rule like that for international divorces.
Each country follows its own laws. Just like an American can move to another state for better divorce laws, people can move to another country too.
Location: Currently I physically reside on the 3rd planet from the sun
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Parisbreakfast
Hi, I am new to the forum, so I hope this is the right place to post this thread.
My daughter is in college and this past spring, she met a guy from Indonesia. He was very attentive and quite smitten with her. They will both be graduating in December, and unless he can get into a graduate program, he will have to return to Indonesia! Which probably won't happen
Anyway, her other boyfriends were never attentive and they didn't last long. She's always been the one to walk away and break up. But this guy really got her attention. He was taking her to nice restaurants, always there, taking her for ice cream, bought ticekts to Taylor Swift concert which isn't until September.
Then we went to Europe for a couple months (relatives), and he wanted to know the address so he could send her surprise packages. He knows she loves surprises.
I began to see all of this as control though. While away, he would text, be on facebook, call and wanted details of everything she was doing. He was clingy and whining a lot.
First off, I wondered why if you just started dating a girl (couple months), why would you BOOK her by buying tickets for a concert in September?? Who says you'll still be together?
Then needing her address in Europe. He asked every day for contact info before they went their separate ways in early May i.e. she to Europe with us, he to Indonesia.
He was setting up date nights all the time to ensure she would not go out with anyone else before the semester break. One night he was busy, a friend came to town so she went to the movies with the friend (male). Guess who happened to show up at the same movie??? I think he was on FB and saw her plans. She didn't think this. She felt it was coincidence.
I see subtle signs of control. She's gorgeous (no, seriously, she looks like a model, tall, long dark hair, sunshine personality), and he's heavy, not ugly but not a person the girls were dying to date so he has never had a girl friend at college. He comes across insecure, and she is like a trophy for him. That's what my brother said without meeting him, but seeing a picture of them both. He sort of held her with a look that says "look what I got!"
I may be too emotionally involved here, but I have seen control in relationships and they don't end well. She has told him over the summer that she is now seeing him as a friend, and does not know how she will feel when they meet again at the end of August.
He wrote this long email saying he wants her to give the "relationship" a chance. She did not accept to be officially boyfriend and girlfriend in spring when he asked, but he says he sees her as a girlfriend. He then went on to recall all the wonderful times together (to bring back some feelings I imagine), and she is not committing right now.
Okay, I did a bad thing. I did the unthinkable. I read the email I know it was wrong, but she left the computer on and did not log out! I say that was a good thing or I would not have realised how clingy and demanding he was getting, but in a very subtle way. He's not all out screaming and demanding...he's very intelligent 4.0, and knows how to woo her, that's for sure.
What to do? I know he'll be back with either two moves. One, he will sort of do the friend thing and be a little distant in the hope she does all the moves. Or two, come bearing lots of lovely gifts from Indonesia and start the fancy restaurant dining (he has money), and giving her lots of nice things.
I don't want to see my daughter in a controlling relationship. I know that I don't have power over this, but she does trust my opinion and she already knows I don't like him because I see this in him. I have given her hints about things I see as not normal i.e. booking her until September at least for the concert!!!
Sorry this is so long. I didn't know where else to go with my thoughts. Some family members are in agreement, and some of my girlfriends as well. Hubby is looking on.
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That was back in letter writing days (clearly since you have a daughter in college!). My first husband and I were separated for 9 months after marriage. There's only so much you can write by hand. But modern technology makes it much easier for people to communicate from great distances---or even just throughout their day in the same city. It's totally normal today for kids to keep in constant contact with their bf/gf and share every single thing happening throughout their days. I have an 18 year old living with me. He is constantly in contact with his gf. I'll ask what they can possibly have to say to each other, what are they talking about. He responds, "She's just telling me what she's doing and I'm telling her what I'm doing." This is the NORM for the younger generation. I fear you may be reading too much into this.
I know it was wrong, but she left the computer on and did not log out! I say that was a good thing or I would not have realised how clingy and demanding he was getting, but in a very subtle way. He's not all out screaming and demanding...he's very intelligent 4.0, and knows how to woo her, that's for sure. 
Sorry this is so long. I didn't know where else to go with my thoughts. Some family members are in agreement, and some of my girlfriends as well. Hubby is looking on.
