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There are countless Dr. Phil episodes on this. In the end, the advice is the same, boot the kid. Letting them live at home without working is a nowhere situation. Personally, IMHO the name calling is a reason to change the locks period. Its verbal and emotional abuse.
Actually I have not seen one Dr. Phil that addressed this issue that did not first have extensive resources in place for the adult child and parents. Psychiatrists, job coaches, counselors, parent counseling, etc. Maybe I'm missing something but I never saw one that advocated just "booting" the kid out without comprehensive supports in place. Let's face it, it might be the easier, quicker solution but you're just setting the adult child up for failure. If at all possible, I would not advocate getting the police involved....
You are probably right. I get less and less patient as I get older. In this case, its devolving into verbal abuse and he seems abusive and contemptuous and thus, its willful, in my untrained mind, not a treatable condition. The parents need counseling as to why they put up with this and let themselves be manipulated.
I have referenced elsewhere that I help take care of a mentally ill relative. Its been hard, even painful for all of us, but he gets up, cleans his efficiency and has a job.
Someone has to break the cycle. Perhaps they should go on Dr. Phil. I am being serious.
You are probably right. I get less and less patient as I get older. In this case, its devolving into verbal abuse and he seems abusive and contemptuous and thus, its willful, in my untrained mind, not a treatable condition. The parents need counseling as to why they put up with this and let themselves be manipulated.
I have referenced elsewhere that I help take care of a mentally ill relative. Its been hard, even painful for all of us, but he gets up, cleans his efficiency and has a job.
Someone has to break the cycle. Perhaps they should go on Dr. Phil. I am being serious.
I hear what you're saying about going on Dr. Phil. Kudos to taking care of the mentally ill relative. Mental illness is tough no matter how you look at it. People who are suffering with a brain disorder are often in such pain that they strike out at those who are closest to them. I may be wrong but this adult child kinda presents to me as textbook depressed. Nothing good will happen until and if he gets help. He'll never have a chance.
The really good news is that once he does receive help, he has a ready made job waiting for him with the family business. That would be an easy transition to make. If he wants, he can use that on his resume and move on. Or just stay on with the family business.
Take the more severe road and give him notice in writing that he needs to be out in 30 days.
They could also take the more moderate approach and set strict ground rules. He must stop using pot. He must get a full time job and start paying rent. No violence or disrespect towards anyone living in the house. If he doesn't want to meet these rules, he's out.
But then, this begs the question... is it really fair that they're kicking their youngest child out of the house, when all their older children (you and your siblings) are being allowed to still live at home rent-free? You have said that you and your other siblings are fine upstanding citizens, and this makes all the difference, but... shrugs. I guess my point is it seems like you're a bit too eager to shove your little brother out into the cold, cruel world for his failure to launch up to this point while you are still living at home, cheerfully eating mommy and daddy's food, and living rent-free yourself. As are all the rest of your siblings.
Just something to consider.
Last edited by kitkatbar; 03-01-2021 at 09:22 AM..
I agree with other posters that this has a lot of tones of a biological or emotional disorder. And while depression is a symptom, I think there are larger issues at play. Clearly this bubbled up around puberty and hasn't been dealt with in any way by the parents. I don't know many kids that quit school and their parents just go along with it...
Let's get some things straight. Illnesses that are mental/emotional/behavioral and such are not an excuse; rather a glaring sign that your methods to solve this problem won't work if you just copy and paste the solutions for others. Your family is going to have to work at it on all sides. To me there are issues that should have been addressed years ago by the schools and parents together but they got pushed under the rug and here we are today.
First problem I see is allowing any child to live at home once they reach adulthood. I know this is a cultural thing for you, but it encourages this behavior because how else will anyone be able to know how to move out on their own. He's not only the youngest (least experienced, most sheltered) there doesn't seem like a lot of options beyond what the family provides. No money, no job, no real resources....and now no motivation because he probably doesn't have a clue where to start.
He sounds just like my youngest brother. Around high school his motivation wa 0. He got great grades but was unchallenged and that made school boring and pointless. He started skipping and got smart mouthed to my parents, mainly my mother. We learned his anger and 'lazy' mindset had to do with him feeling overwhelmed and unsure how to take control of his life. My parents and the school pushed him more; he registered for college classes in high school which gave him experience in the independence he was craving. Once he got used to the college classes he started exploring degrees and careers. Today he's doing great and happy he was able to overcome his past.
This is very common for young men who feel insecure with their lives. They go between lashing out and shutting down. Motivation for things outside their world will stop and depression absolutely takes hold. The trick is therapy and pushing the individual to challenge themselves with something that engages them. What was he good at or interested in school? Introduce him to work that's interesting to him not something that's going to keep him in the funk (like working and taking orders from family). If you don't have a good relationship with him that will be challenging and probably your first step. But right now the kid sounds like he needs just as much support as he needs structure.
Your parents are going to be the determining factor of his succuss but as a sibling you can help by setting a good example and reaching out. Hang out with him to help keep him from smoking. Go on an outing with him. Or....move out and show him it's possible and a good solution of you don't want to be bothered by family 24/7.
I don't think he has mental problems (I think he is just a rude/spoiled person) but he is for sure addicted to weed. He does have a high school diploma (did the bare minimum in the end, like can't get into post-secondary with those grades but better than nothing), but yeah, I don't know where he's going in life. However, that is not our problem. If he, as an adult, is deciding to pursue a lazy life without working or even trying, why should that be my parents' fault? They definitely wouldn't blame themselves, as it's not their blame to take. If something were to happen to him, it would be sad, but ultimately it would be due to his own poor choices.
His behaviour leads to my mom dealing with dangerously high blood pressure and I don't want her health to take more hits because of him. If anything, it would be my mother I would lose if my brother can't learn to be decent at home.
Thanks for the court order info, I haven't heard of this and will look into this too.
I actually feel that most are defending my brother here, thinking he has mental health issues, whereas I'm pointing towards him just being a lazy jerk and asking for how to go about removing him from the house. So because he just lives with the parents, he doesn't need an eviction notice?
And thank you. This is finally a response that's understanding my point. His behaviour, mental illness or not, is not an excuse. Someone just pointed out that if we kick him out, he'll end up dead and that my parents will be at blame. Like, what on earth??? And I had the same reaction when I heard him call mom that. If I was the parent, lord knows he'd have been out the door many years ago, regardless of what would happen to him. You just don't treat your parents like that and get to live with them like a freeloader.
Thank you, perfect answer. My brother doesn't have a phone with service. He has an iPhone and I guess things like iMessage and SnapChat, all via wifi, are enough for him.
For sure. We love him to pieces, but we can't take this anymore. There is constant tension at our home and big fights every other day over this crap. I think I'll advise my mom to give him a month maximum to get a job (it's not easy right now due to covid), and as soon as he does, he'll have another month or so to get out. I think that's plenty of time considering the pandemic (it's very bad in the area we live) to not only get out of here, but to sort things out for himself.
He’s not addicted to marijuana, you cannot be physically addicted to it. He may have some sort of emotional dependency but there is no actual addiction going on here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by phinneas j. whoopee
In MY DAY dad would have popped open a can of whoopass on jr. long ago.
And your dad would have been breaking the law. That’s all fine and dandy as long as the person is under the age of 18 but the literally day someone turns 18 you can no longer physically discipline them legally.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LittleDolphin
The son is not too depressed to play video games all day.
He's not too depressed to smoke weed every day.
He's not too depressed to call his mother names.
Seems his depression is working for him fine...
That’s not all how depression works.
And if anything laying in bed all day playing video games, using substances to cope, outbursts towards other people sounds like depression to me.
Depression affects everyone differently. Usually when I’m depressed I sit and disassociate on my phone for hours.
Quote:
Originally Posted by parentologist
This problem has been a long time developing. From the first time that your parents (and the older sibs) became aware that he was using marijuana, and didn't do anything about it. From the first summer after age 16 that he didn't work, but did nothing productive instead. From the first time that he refused to help with household chores, or wasn't expected to do any.
Yes, he probably does have a mental health issue, since the older kids in the house apparently just understood that they were supposed to go to school, work, and do well. But it's also likely poor parenting, with no consequences for bad behavior.
Anyway, if your parents are ready to tell him, "You will not use drugs ever again if you want to live in this house, you will work and pay market rent if you want to live in this house, and otherwise you will leave now" - then fine. You and the older sibs need to speak with your parents and see what they want to do. If they're ready to lay down the law, I think it would probably be the best thing that ever happened to this young man. And if he doesn't comply, and they kick him out, he may have an epiphany when he winds up in a homeless shelter. Or he may wind up in an early grave.
You can get him help if he is willing to stop using drugs. If he's not, nothing is going to help him while he's still doing drugs.
If your parents are unwilling to lay down the law (which I suspect is the case, since after all, this has been going on for SO long), then probably it's time for the rest of you to move out. It's really too bad, but when parents are unwilling to set boundaries on one adult child's behavior, the old-country model of the family living together until a child marries or moves far away for a high-power job just cannot work anymore.
The drugs aren’t the issue here and astounding amount of people smoke pot anf have very productive lives. It’s his attitude. I know a lot of people who smoke and own businesses and make more money than I do.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mindraker
Get him off the drugs and send him to the military.
He’s 20, he’d have to join voluntarily.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kitkatbar
Your parents could:
Take the more severe road and give him notice in writing that he needs to be out in 30 days.
They could also take the more moderate approach and set strict ground rules. He must stop using pot. He must get a full time job and start paying rent. No violence or disrespect towards anyone living in the house. If he doesn't want to meet these rules, he's out.
But then, this begs the question... is it really fair that they're kicking their youngest child out of the house, when all their older children (you and your siblings) are being allowed to still live at home rent-free? You have said that you and your other siblings are fine upstanding citizens, and this makes all the difference, but... shrugs. I guess my point is it seems like you're a bit too eager to shove your little brother out into the cold, cruel world for his failure to launch up to this point while you are still living at home, cheerfully eating mommy and daddy's food, and living rent-free yourself. As are all the rest of your siblings.
Just something to consider.
Yes it’s fair. Her and the rest of her siblings are playing the game by the rules. They’re doing what’s expected of them and her brother isn’t.
So the real question is would it really be fair to punish all the kids when only one of them is the problem?
Imagine if you went to a movie and some random kids were being loud so they just shut down the whole movie and kicked everyone out without a refund? That wouldn’t be fair.
Imagine if your neighbor got a DUI so your whole street got put on probation? See how punishing people not involved in the problem makes no sense to do.
What’s not fair is their parents having to deal with this kid being lazy.
What would be unfair is kicking all of them out instead of just the one problem child.
And it’s not even a failure to launch it’s a failure to thrive.
I lived at home until I was 21, my mom didn’t buy my car and I paid for the gas, insurance, I paid for my clothes, most my food, I paid for my cell phone and all my own needs, I bought my own shampoo/conditioner, make up etc. I paid for everything but rent. I worked full time, was in and out of college part time, I was hardly ever home because I was either working, in school or o just stayed away from the house unless it was to sleep in general. I was always fine, hardly ever home. I was like a ghost for 4 years. There was hell for sure but I tried to do my own thing and stay off my moms radar as much as possible, even tho on her radar is exactly where she wanted me for some fnstupid reason.
But myself like the OP and the rest of her siblings I was 98% self sufficient, if I wanted video games I went and bought them, I went and bought a PlayStation 3 and several games, if I wanted a new phone it was up to me to pay for it. The only thing I didn’t pay for was rent and it’s not like my room would have been rented out if I left, my mom would have been paying the same amount with it without me there.
But myself like the OP and the rest of her siblings I was 98% self sufficient, if I wanted video games I went and bought them, I went and bought a PlayStation 3 and several games, if I wanted a new phone it was up to me to pay for it. The only thing I didn’t pay for was rent and it’s not like my room would have been rented out if I left, my mom would have been paying the same amount with it without me there.
LOL. That's not 98% self-sufficient. You living at home with mommy while not having to pay any rent is not 98% self-sufficient. It's not 98% self-sufficient when the OP and her siblings are doing it either.
I'm not saying this to act like the youngest brother is some sort of saint, just to point out the level of hypocrisy in the OP saying he should be tossed out on his butt when the OP is older than he is, as are the rest of the siblings, and all of them are living at home rent-free, eating all of mommy and daddy's food and not having to pay for any of it.
Clearly the parents have not established adult boundaries with ANY of their children. They are all still at home, living rent free and eating mom and dad's food. What a great deal! So naturally the youngest one has observed this pattern and learned, yup, that's what I'll do, too.
I think if the OP wants to fix what's going on this house, she may want to start by moving out herself first as an example. If it's going to be soooo easy for her youngest brother once he's tossed out on his ear in 30 days, why can't she (with her better education and more experience) do it RIGHT NOW?
LOL. That's not 98% self-sufficient. You living at home with mommy while not having to pay any rent is not 98% self-sufficient. It's not 98% self-sufficient when the OP and her siblings are doing it either.
I'm not saying this to act like the youngest brother is some sort of saint, just to point out the level of hypocrisy in the OP saying he should be tossed out on his butt when the OP is older than he is, as are the rest of the siblings, and all of them are living at home rent-free, eating all of mommy and daddy's food and not having to pay for any of it.
Clearly the parents have not established adult boundaries with ANY of their children. They are all still at home, living rent free and eating mom and dad's food. What a great deal! So naturally the youngest one has observed this pattern and learned, yup, that's what I'll do, too.
I think if the OP wants to fix what's going on this house, she may want to start by moving out herself first as an example. If it's going to be soooo easy for her youngest brother once he's tossed out on his ear in 30 days, why can't she (with her better education and more experience) do it RIGHT NOW?
Waiting to hear from you, OP!
Clearly there are expectations since all of the other siblings have gone to college or are in college and are working while living at home and the parents don’t have any issue with other siblings.
The youngest sibling isn’t working, isn’t going to college and is freeloading.
He could easily avoid being kicked out and thrown on his ass if he would get a job and change his behavior.
Many parents tell their kids as long as you’re working, going to school and bettering yourself for a good future you don’t have to pay rent or for food.
I’d say as long as the other kids are doing what their parents expect of them why would they have to leave just because the younger brother can’t get his crap together?
It sounds like the OP and majority of her siblings are a joy to have in the home and to have around, maybe their parents don’t mind them being there as long as they’re being contributing members of the household.
I don’t know why you’re so hyper fixated on this not being fair to the one person who isn’t doing anything around the house or supporting himself.
The OP also stated that her and her siblings help out with the family business on top of having their own jobs and going to college and working towards degrees.
How much more would you like them to contribute?
I’d say that’s a pretty full plate for people in the mid to early 20s. Especially when these kids could be out partying themselves they’re choosing to work hard vs enjoy life and have fun while they’re young.
The least the brother could do is support himself while living at home even if he doesn’t want anything to do with the family business.
If a relation EVER, mental health or not, called our mother a b..tch there'd be a FREE RIDE for him, preferably in the trunk, to another city and if I'm feeling REALLY GOOD, a drop off at the Salvation Army
OP, are you still there? Hope that you've clicked on some of the links that could give you a good background on depression. If that's what it is. Even if it isn't I hope you and others on this board open your minds and realize that brains can get sick like any other organ in the body and suffering can manifest itself in ways that are off putting. Actually, even people who are suffering physically are rarely at their best.
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