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This is true. I wasn't considering the neighborhoods quoted above as part of North Philly (except Templetown, which I expressly cited as an exception). I was thinking of the neighborhoods significantly north of downtown, starting from Girard Avenue or so. My apologies for not being more precise.
Even if true, this is different than the color coding being different for the Philly and NYC maps.
For example, most of the orange areas on the NYC maps don't concern me very much. But I frequently have to pass through the areas of West Philly between University City and Upper Darby. And even the orange areas there, such as those along Walnut Street, concern me to some extent.
Even most of the red areas in NYC don't concern me excessively during the daytime or early evening. But I would be very concerned about getting off the El or out of a car in the red areas in West Philly, such as those along Market Street, at any hour.
Also, the areas of Templetown just west and east of campus which are colored orange seem comparable to me to areas in the South Bronx which are red on the NYC maps.
That's because those neighborhoods are a lot less intact than most of the neighborhoods of NYC. You could go to almost any section of the city and you will find the exact same thing of entire commercial strips or residential blocks that have either been abandoned or are in the process of being abandoned. Luckily, these days immigrants repopulate those neighborhoods but that wasn't the case for many years. Ridge Ave, 52nd street in West Philly, Baltimore Ave, .. you could name almost any commercial corridor outside of Center City and it's the exact same story. In fact, it's the same story in places outside of Philly as well. For better or worse, your city has never not had a lot of people and that means that most of it has always had some sort of activity whereas even Center City was pretty damn dead as recently as twenty or twenty-five years ago. On top of that, NYC is much more "city" in parts than many parts of Philly are. It's not just a marketing campaign when people say this is a city of neighborhoods. Outside of the main thoroughfares with the large, big-city buildings (where many of the larger, big-city buildings have been torn down unfortunately), Philly is just one neighborhood after another of mainly houses and Philly and even the metro in general is incomplete in this way. It's what makes it so great to grow up in Philly and similar neighborhoods outside of the city but it's also what makes it hard to understand and hard to see as "city" in some ways. It's hard to explain what I'm trying to say but if you learn the history of the city and metro then you'll get what I'm saying.
As far as the South Bronx goes, you know you wouldn't be saying anywhere outside of maybe North Philly were comparable to it if this were twenty or thirty years ago, let alone in the '70s. The South Bronx has a major head start on North Philly, as NYC does on Philly given that NYC didn't empty out and decline anywhere near on the scale that Philly and its entire metro did.
Quote:
Originally Posted by frankgn87
really? I did not make up any of the links I posted. Others did.. Where is the over exaggeration? Do your homework because the 15th IS the busiest in the city for crime.. It amazes me how little you actually know about Philly
Metropolis is a very one-sided publication that is mostly written by outsiders. It's not the best source to go to for actual neighborhood analysis.
I know the Northeast is having a lot of problems in parts but honestly I think many people from the Northeast don't understand that many of their problems have existed not only in other parts of the city but even in the communities directly to the west and southwest of Philly for decades now. Frankford is definitely as bad in parts as other sections of the city but it's also the most urban section of the entire Northeast so you shouldn't really be surprised by that. The rest of the Northeast though only gets worse for as far as the ghetto pushes north from North Philly and other parts of the city. It's also the size of entire cities so it's not like the Northeast is going to become some hellhole overnight or even at all for that matter. To be honest, I think it's good that people like you move out of the Northeast because as people get older and their kids are grown and out of the house, they don't have as much reason to hold down their neighborhoods and there need to always be strong role models and block captains in working class neighborhoods otherwise those neighborhoods won't stay stable. That's exactly the problem we've had in Upper Darby, and having people who are raising families replacing the old-timers naturally as they die off or move away is a big part of what has so far kept Upper Darby from going to hell the way it could've starting about five years ago. In my opinion, it is that exact same thing that is capable of doing the same for the Northeast. When you have immigrants building communities and even good people from neighborhoods that aren't as nice as the Northeast, you build stability and a foundation to replace the one that's eroded with many of the original residents of the Northeast moving further north one neighborhood at a time. I understand why you feel the way you do about your former section of the city. I've seen my neighborhood change the same way, and not being isolated from the things you used to be isolated from is a big shock and can be scary to even the most hardened working class person. Nobody wants to not feel the same ease walking through parts of their neighborhood that they used to but that's just how it is in a city. Both Upper Darby and the Northeast and even other parts similarly distanced from the core were isolated from all of that for many decades but that doesn't mean that any of those places are now ghettos or will be in the future. Outside of the actual problems areas like Frankford, people need to just be street smart and not forget they're in a city. People in other parts of Philly have been doing that for decades, even people in Center City.
As for the Society Hill murder, this may come off as callous but that's just the city and it happens in every real city in the US. It happens in New York, in Chicago, in LA even. It's a sad fact but the core of a city is always going to be potentially dangerous because it's where everybody from the entire city and even the metro comes together. They said it was a robbery gone wrong. It's sad and it's awful but that stuff happens sometimes.
@UDResident: I agree that Philly has the deck stacked against it in many ways. In that light, what it's been able to achieve in quality of life and safety is impressive.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Summersm343
Fair enough. I guess I just have a higher tolerance. I lived next to Temple and I learned to really respect the area and feel comfortable while there.
I have a pretty high tolerance for safety risk myself. And I've also learned to respect the South Bronx and, at least during business hours, feel comfortable there.
It's possible to manage the safety risk of an area that's somewhat dangerous. I have, and it sounds like you have, too. But such areas are still dangerous for the majority of people.
@UDResident: I agree that Philly has the deck stacked against it in many ways. In that light, what it's been able to achieve in quality of life and safety is impressive.
I have a pretty high tolerance for safety risk myself. And I've also learned to respect the South Bronx and, at least during business hours, feel comfortable there.
It's possible to manage the safety risk of an area that's somewhat dangerous. I have, and it sounds like you have, too. But such areas are still dangerous for the majority of people.
I agree. The average person, in my opinion, would be fine though walking through North Philadelphia as long as they had the normal city smarts.
absolutely NOT true. No one is happy when another human loses a life, stop being an idiot. Its horrible when it happens. I was merely pointing out when a person got murdered in SH and summer refused to believe it .. Thats all
Quote:
Originally Posted by Summersm343
If you haven't noticed, Frank is very happy when crime happens in Philly and he will post about it on this forum almost immediately after the event has happened. He never posts anything but an article about crime and never contributes anything positive. He is on a personal vendetta against Philadelphia and he wants to convince everyone that it is hell on earth. He will go to any length imaginable to dissuade people from moving to Philadelphia and does not want the city to succeed in urban renewal in any way imaginable. There are no nice areas of the city according to Frank, it is all one big barren wasteland filled with thugs, drugs, crime and murder.
He would like us all to move to New Jersey, for he believes that it is a suburban paradise filled with flowers and butterflies.
absolutely NOT true. No one is happy when another human loses a life, stop being an idiot. Its horrible when it happens. I was merely pointing out when a person got murdered in SH and summer refused to believe it .. Thats all
Lol I was being sarcastic Frank... I obviously wasn't serious. This is something you may like though. I did a rough break down of the murders in Philadelphia and it turns out 105 of the 189 murders committed in Philadelphia have occurred in North Philadelphia. That leaves 84 murders for the rest of the city.
Now let's pretend for a second, that for some reason North Philadelphia was a different city than the rest of Philadelphia. North Philadelphia's population as of 2010 was 340,350. With 105 murders, it's murder rate would be 30.8 per 100,000 and North Philadelphia would be one of the worst cities in the US...
The rest of Philadelphia would have 84 murders with a population of 1,196,121 with a murder rate of 7.0 per 100,000.
Do you see what I mean? Outside of North Philadelphia, the rest of Philadelphia compares to any other city in the U.S. Outside of North Philadelphia, Philadelphia is no more dangerous than any other city in the U.S., which is what I was trying to show you with the posts about NYC, etc. The good majority of us have no reason to ever go into North Philadelphia and because of that we're in no more danger than anyone else living in any other city in the U.S. Even if we took North Philadelphia out of Philadelphia hypothetically, the rest of the city would still be bigger in Population and physical size than both San Francisco and Boston, and it would be safer than both of them.
Even if we took North Philadelphia out of Philadelphia hypothetically, the rest of the city would still be bigger in Population and physical size than both San Francisco and Boston, and it would be safer than both of them.
Careful, common sense has a way of squelching suburban fear mongers.
*phew* you were worrying me.. Yea i can see the whole North Philly issue, for sure.. Whats the answer? double or triple the Police action in North Philly? Toss ALL the liberal Judges out and put in more conservative ones? What?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Summersm343
Lol I was being sarcastic Frank... I obviously wasn't serious. This is something you may like though. I did a rough break down of the murders in Philadelphia and it turns out 105 of the 189 murders committed in Philadelphia have occurred in North Philadelphia. That leaves 84 murders for the rest of the city.
Now let's pretend for a second, that for some reason North Philadelphia was a different city than the rest of Philadelphia. North Philadelphia's population as of 2010 was 340,350. With 105 murders, it's murder rate would be 30.8 per 100,000 and North Philadelphia would be one of the worst cities in the US...
The rest of Philadelphia would have 84 murders with a population of 1,196,121 with a murder rate of 7.0 per 100,000.
Do you see what I mean? Outside of North Philadelphia, the rest of Philadelphia compares to any other city in the U.S. Outside of North Philadelphia, Philadelphia is no more dangerous than any other city in the U.S., which is what I was trying to show you with the posts about NYC, etc. The good majority of us have no reason to ever go into North Philadelphia and because of that we're in no more danger than anyone else living in any other city in the U.S. Even if we took North Philadelphia out of Philadelphia hypothetically, the rest of the city would still be bigger in Population and physical size than both San Francisco and Boston, and it would be safer than both of them.
*phew* you were worrying me.. Yea i can see the whole North Philly issue, for sure.. Whats the answer? double or triple the Police action in North Philly? Toss ALL the liberal Judges out and put in more conservative ones? What?
That's exactly what they are doing... doubling the police presence in North Philadelphia many of who will be on bike or on foot.
What is the result? There hasn't been a murder in the city in a week and a half.
That's exactly what they are doing... doubling the police presence in North Philadelphia many of who will be on bike or on foot.
What is the result? There hasn't been a murder in the city in a week and a half.
Not being a s downer but how do you know if there is a murder of not? Like I told you before I had 2 employees killed by gunfire and neither made one word on the news or paper. Im sure the news picks and chooses the murders they want to do stories on
Lol I was being sarcastic Frank... I obviously wasn't serious. This is something you may like though. I did a rough break down of the murders in Philadelphia and it turns out 105 of the 189 murders committed in Philadelphia have occurred in North Philadelphia. That leaves 84 murders for the rest of the city.
Now let's pretend for a second, that for some reason North Philadelphia was a different city than the rest of Philadelphia. North Philadelphia's population as of 2010 was 340,350. With 105 murders, it's murder rate would be 30.8 per 100,000 and North Philadelphia would be one of the worst cities in the US...
The rest of Philadelphia would have 84 murders with a population of 1,196,121 with a murder rate of 7.0 per 100,000.
Do you see what I mean? Outside of North Philadelphia, the rest of Philadelphia compares to any other city in the U.S. Outside of North Philadelphia, Philadelphia is no more dangerous than any other city in the U.S., which is what I was trying to show you with the posts about NYC, etc. The good majority of us have no reason to ever go into North Philadelphia and because of that we're in no more danger than anyone else living in any other city in the U.S. Even if we took North Philadelphia out of Philadelphia hypothetically, the rest of the city would still be bigger in Population and physical size than both San Francisco and Boston, and it would be safer than both of them.
Boston is supposed to be one of the safer cities on the east coast based on articles I read
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