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That literally means nothing other than more people used the regional rail this weekend than normal.
Do you think posting negative things will some how vindicate your other negative statements?
You going to post the article from Philly.com of the "expert" who looked at a photo of the parkway to make an estimate of the total crowd?
Like can't you see that for everyone who went it was a once in a lifetime event that we were extremely proud of?
Whoa dude you need to chill. I thought it was interesting that no more people than usual rode the rail. That is NOT a negative statement. Someone else posted a link previously that showed how many tickets were available, how many were bought, and how many were actually used. Again, interesting... not negative. Especially because when they initially tried to sell the tickets without the lottery, the site crashed. So I wonder what would've happened if they didn't do the lottery after all - would all of the tickets have sold out? Would more people have tried to scalp them?
I've said before, I support the event being here and I'm glad that people were able to experience it. It's not my thing at all. And that's not a bad or negative thing. I am allowed to provide a different viewpoint. But the rail numbers interest me because it makes it seem like the whole plan was overkill like others have noted. If my station was open and I was allowed to use my usual monthly pass, I would've gone into the city to check this out even though it's not my thing.
Whoa dude you need to chill. I thought it was interesting that no more people than usual rode the rail. That is NOT a negative statement.
But that's not what the article states.. It compares this weekends number vs weekday numbers. I highly doubt 20,000 is the average for the weekend
Quote:
I've said before, I support the event being here and I'm glad that people were able to experience it. It's not my thing at all. And that's not a bad or negative thing. I am allowed to provide a different viewpoint. But the rail numbers interest me because it makes it seem like the whole plan was overkill like others have noted. If my station was open and I was allowed to use my usual monthly pass, I would've gone into the city to check this out even though it's not my thing.
That's fine. It would have been worse if security was light and something happened. Sorry if you took my comments as aggressive. its tougher for me to write things out on my phone..
The weekend was great, everyone attending seemed to have a great time... but this was a chance missed for Septa big time. With no cars in the city, this was the chance for Septa to promote their service and get some riders they usually miss out on. It should have been "COME ON SEPTA, WE'LL GET YOU INTO THE CITY EASILY WITH NO ISSUES!". Instead, they ended up wasting money having additional trains and crews waiting on crowds that never showed up.
A better way to handle the situation would have been to have tickets to specific regional rail stops and cap them at a certain number (even have timed tickets... gasp) and tie the ticket directly to the buyer. You don't have your ID, you don't ride. They could have left all the regional rail stations open and showed off how wonderful the system is. Instead we had a underutilized public transit system.
This weekend was in no way a black eye for Septa, they did their job and it worked. However, it was a rare chance to be exceptional that was missed. Just my opinion.
That is NOT a negative statement. Someone else posted a link previously that showed how many tickets were available, how many were bought, and how many were actually used. Again, interesting... not negative. .
Welcome to the negative club.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin1813
The weekend was great, everyone attending seemed to have a great time... but this was a chance missed for Septa big time. With no cars in the city, this was the chance for Septa to promote their service and get some riders they usually miss out on. It should have been "COME ON SEPTA, WE'LL GET YOU INTO THE CITY EASILY WITH NO ISSUES!". Instead, they ended up wasting money having additional trains and crews waiting on crowds that never showed up.
A better way to handle the situation would have been to have tickets to specific regional rail stops and cap them at a certain number (even have timed tickets... gasp) and tie the ticket directly to the buyer. You don't have your ID, you don't ride. They could have left all the regional rail stations open and showed off how wonderful the system is. Instead we had a underutilized public transit system.
This weekend was in no way a black eye for Septa, they did their job and it worked. However, it was a rare chance to be exceptional that was missed. Just my opinion.
I agree with your sentiment wholeheartedly. SEPTA seemed to move the people that were there fairly efficiently - I doubt anybody who was unfamiliar with the system came out of it thinking negatively towards it.
The capping of ridership was a pretty good idea given the grave numbers being thrown out there at first - I wouldn't mind seeing it happen again if times call for it. I get a zone 2 every month, and would have gladly paid the 10 dollars to guarantee a trip for this one weekend when getting a train could have been uncertain....except the train stopped nowhere near where I live - despite having 3 train stations within easy walking distance from my home (and perhaps up to 4 more I'd be willing to walk to if I had to) and it stopped nowhere near where I worked (despite other trains doing so).
So hopefully SEPTA will indeed give up on their pioneering of the stationless railroad.
You live and you learn I guess, except this was such an obviously dumb plan for the get-go, and I don't understand how anybody who uses SEPTA trains for more than shuttling back and forth between places that are probably walking distance anyway (i.e, the MFL and BSL within "Greater Center City") couldn't see it.
Might be the first time I've really wondered what they're thinking over at 1234 Market, then again I haven't been here terribly long. I only hope that the secret service called the shots on that one - but the opening up of so many BSL and MFL stations towards the end makes me wonder about that. We may never know for sure.
Quote:
I highly doubt 20,000 is the average for the weekend
I have no idea what regional rail ridership is on the weekends - it's certainly less than during the week. It must be out there in the data somewhere, I'd be interested to see it if anyone finds it. I can say that the CHW handled less than 2,000 people on saturday, it was the only chestnut hill train running, and that if 2,000 people don't take the Chestnut Hill West and Chestnut Hill East lines combined together on a regular saturday (which they may not), that there is certainly the capacity and infrastructure already there to support them doing so if they'd just show up.
But big events like the flower show, car show, 4th of July, parades, or sports games can lead to a few hours of extremely crowded trains on the weekend - and SEPTA rarely even seems interested in adding an extra train to the schedule when known and predictable external factors call for it.
Regular weekday service with a modified peak hour pushed back to the end of the papal events could have handled these crowds, and even larger crowds. 3 hours of 15-30 minute headways, with a return to hourly service for the stragglers towards the end of the night. That was the beauty of idea of managing capacity - the terrible ordeals of world series parades and mid-day snow emergencies was a capacity problem - not a too many stations problem.
The same thing wound up happening that you would expect would happen if SEPTA closed almost all of its regional rail stations on any other day....it wasn't very convenient for most people, so they opted not to take it.
Keep in mind that the vast majority of attendees WALKED to the event from hotels within walking distance to the event sites.. There was also church groups and other groups that came in via charter buses from throughout the region.. The Regional Rail would have only been used by local commuters attending the event and as stated by other posters, the number is obviously much higher than a normal weekend.. This is far from an accurate measurement of how large this event was, posting this was a moot point..
Keep in mind that the vast majority of attendees WALKED to the event from hotels within walking distance to the event sites.. There was also church groups and other groups that came in via charter buses from throughout the region.. The Regional Rail would have only been used by local commuters attending the event and as stated by other posters, the number is obviously much higher than a normal weekend.. This is far from an accurate measurement of how large this event was, posting this was a moot point..
A lot of this thread is me (and a few others, but I can admit I'm the one that's probably coming off as obsessive) talking about how the plan for the railroad (and originally the subways as well) was not a good plan for serving the public - both those visiting for the event, and any locals whose lives unfortunately had to go on as normal for these two days.
It's fairly relevant information for at least one of the several conversations that has been going on here for an impressive amount of pages.
It does not under any circumstance mean that the event was a failure. If the railroad somehow would have used all 175,000 tickets per day, the size of the event wouldn't have been that much different, assuming the 860k is right (and even if it's not, there were a ton of people there on sunday). The idea that 175k would take trains from a small handful of stations was a pipedream though, considering nowhere near that many take it when it has 150 some stations.
Also, everybody should be very happy that 175k people didn't try to take regional rail from a dozen or so stations.
I agree with your sentiment wholeheartedly. SEPTA seemed to move the people that were there fairly efficiently - I doubt anybody who was unfamiliar with the system came out of it thinking negatively towards it.
The capping of ridership was a pretty good idea given the grave numbers being thrown out there at first - I wouldn't mind seeing it happen again if times call for it. I get a zone 2 every month, and would have gladly paid the 10 dollars to guarantee a trip for this one weekend when getting a train could have been uncertain....except the train stopped nowhere near where I live - despite having 3 train stations within easy walking distance from my home (and perhaps up to 4 more I'd be willing to walk to if I had to) and it stopped nowhere near where I worked (despite other trains doing so).
So hopefully SEPTA will indeed give up on their pioneering of the stationless railroad.
You live and you learn I guess, except this was such an obviously dumb plan for the get-go, and I don't understand how anybody who uses SEPTA trains for more than shuttling back and forth between places that are probably walking distance anyway (i.e, the MFL and BSL within "Greater Center City") couldn't see it.
Might be the first time I've really wondered what they're thinking over at 1234 Market, then again I haven't been here terribly long. I only hope that the secret service called the shots on that one - but the opening up of so many BSL and MFL stations towards the end makes me wonder about that. We may never know for sure.
I have no idea what regional rail ridership is on the weekends - it's certainly less than during the week. It must be out there in the data somewhere, I'd be interested to see it if anyone finds it. I can say that the CHW handled less than 2,000 people on saturday, it was the only chestnut hill train running, and that if 2,000 people don't take the Chestnut Hill West and Chestnut Hill East lines combined together on a regular saturday (which they may not), that there is certainly the capacity and infrastructure already there to support them doing so if they'd just show up.
But big events like the flower show, car show, 4th of July, parades, or sports games can lead to a few hours of extremely crowded trains on the weekend - and SEPTA rarely even seems interested in adding an extra train to the schedule when known and predictable external factors call for it.
Regular weekday service with a modified peak hour pushed back to the end of the papal events could have handled these crowds, and even larger crowds. 3 hours of 15-30 minute headways, with a return to hourly service for the stragglers towards the end of the night. That was the beauty of idea of managing capacity - the terrible ordeals of world series parades and mid-day snow emergencies was a capacity problem - not a too many stations problem.
The same thing wound up happening that you would expect would happen if SEPTA closed almost all of its regional rail stations on any other day....it wasn't very convenient for most people, so they opted not to take it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by FamousBlueRaincoat
A lot of this thread is me (and a few others, but I can admit I'm the one that's probably coming off as obsessive) talking about how the plan for the railroad (and originally the subways as well) was not a good plan for serving the public - both those visiting for the event, and any locals whose lives unfortunately had to go on as normal for these two days.
It's fairly relevant information for at least one of the several conversations that has been going on here for an impressive amount of pages.
It does not under any circumstance mean that the event was a failure. If the railroad somehow would have used all 175,000 tickets per day, the size of the event wouldn't have been that much different, assuming the 860k is right (and even if it's not, there were a ton of people there on sunday). The idea that 175k would take trains from a small handful of stations was a pipedream though, considering nowhere near that many take it when it has 150 some stations.
Also, everybody should be very happy that 175k people didn't try to take regional rail from a dozen or so stations.
If voicing our opinions make us negative, then so be it
I completely agree with everything FBR has detailed in these posts. The fact that weekend ridership is less or people walked is not a moot point. The point is that SEPTA deals with this amount of people on Regional Rail on a completely regular basis (i.e. every single weekday). SEPTA CAN and DOES handle those amounts of people on RR. Closing all but a few stations was completely overkill. They could've run trains as usual with extra time slots during the busier times (just like every single weekday rush hour). They completely cut off lots of people. Like I said, had my Manayunk station been open, I definitely would've wandered down to CC. But it was a complete inconvenience the way they set it up - I would have to pay extra money and drive all the way up to Norristown just to wait in a several hour time slot and then be stuck in CC all day until the hours long time slots were returning.
I read several articles yesterday that talked to pilgrims who stayed in hotels well outside Philly because the hotels in CC were charging super high prices. It wasn't until nothing was booked a month beforehand that the hotels panicked and dropped their prices.
I also loved Nutter's press conference where he blamed the media for scaring people. He was the one that was freaking out way early on. And there were many reports that he specifically said this would be a huge economic boost the local businesses. Now he's saying he never said any of those things. Hindsight is 20/20. There was no full way to predict what this event would be like but I definitely think Nutter/City are to blame for the fear that was instilled in residents. I think it would've been much better if they outlined their plan ahead of time and released it with full details once it was ironed out. Instead, they figured it out as they went along. And they saw how the public reacted and then changed their plans accordingly. Like I said before, papal event tickets were not even going to be available to the general public - who the heck thought that was a good idea?
I am a huge supporter of local businesses, so I definitely feel for them for losing out on so much money this weekend. Some people in this thread have acted ignorantly dismissive because it's the service industry. As someone with a lot of service industry experience and who has family members that solely work in the service industry as their profession, I absolutely understand how detrimental something like that can be. Yes, Philly was highlighted on an international stage and the Pope coming here was a wonderful thing for the city. But what about the little guys? The small businesses, the local restaurants, etc - they certainly suffered a loss this weekend because of it.
I'm very glad that there are so many reports of pilgrims speaking highly of our city. But my honest opinion is that they didn't see the REAL Philadelphia. This is NOT how Philly is on a daily basis. And the pilgrims weren't here to see Philly anyway - they were here to see the Pope. I hope that some will come back to experience Philly for what it's actually like.
Location: NYC based - Used to Live in Philly - Transplant from Miami
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin1813
The weekend was great, everyone attending seemed to have a great time... but this was a chance missed for Septa big time. With no cars in the city, this was the chance for Septa to promote their service and get some riders they usually miss out on. It should have been "COME ON SEPTA, WE'LL GET YOU INTO THE CITY EASILY WITH NO ISSUES!". Instead, they ended up wasting money having additional trains and crews waiting on crowds that never showed up.
A better way to handle the situation would have been to have tickets to specific regional rail stops and cap them at a certain number (even have timed tickets... gasp) and tie the ticket directly to the buyer. You don't have your ID, you don't ride. They could have left all the regional rail stations open and showed off how wonderful the system is. Instead we had a underutilized public transit system.
This weekend was in no way a black eye for Septa, they did their job and it worked. However, it was a rare chance to be exceptional that was missed. Just my opinion.
I like the idea. They could promote it like "Come and enjoy the car-less city!".
But I believe this is the very first time ever happened so I hope SEPTA learns.
I read that it seems that everybody loves it so much that next year we will have another car-less day sans the Pope.
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