Are speeding fines too low? (Phoenix: appointed, tax, food)

[DetroitN8V]

Originally Posted by Dewey59

From DPS Director Col. Frank Milstead:


“Unfortunately, at the speeds people are driving – 80 to 85 mph – when something goes wrong – and it will go wrong, somebody will do something inappropriate – things go wrong real fast and real violently.”


This is my beef with people like you, Detroit.... You think you have a RIGHT to do whatever you want on the road. Live and let live, your not hurting anyone else, leave me alone, etc., etc. Well, when you are driving that fast, you are risking other people's lives.

Yeah, I know, you're the best driver on the face of the earth, and YOU would NEVER cause an accident. Well, even if it is not you that causes the problem (maybe someone cuts in front of you), when you are driving that fast, you simply cannot react fast enough, or you over react which leads to an accident that can involve several other cars.

And really, what's the hurry? In most cases, people who are speeding are not late for something, they just like to speed... A completely selfish act.

No I'm not. I won't push it in congested situations, and I'd agree that doing so can be dangerous, but many times our traffic is so light that it's easy to safely go 80+, especially in a car that was designed with the Autobahn in mind. The notion that 75 is fine, but 85 is murderous is completely based in fear, and nothing more.

These are some great pieces based on FACTS. Yes, the video in the first link is from Canada, but it would certainly apply to our highways, where the speed limit and flow of traffic is in such disparity.

Viral video convinces British Columbia to raise speed limits - NY Daily News

https://www.motorists.org/does-speed-kill/

Congestion is far more dangerous than speed. It's the self-righteous drivers, so concerned with what others are doing, that cause clogs contributing to dangerous congestion. If everyone drove it the proper lane based on their skill and comfort level, our roads would be far safer, regardless of speed. Need proof? Hop a flight to Germany. It's worth the haul for the beer alone.

[JGMotorsport64]

Originally Posted by Dewey59

From DPS Director Col. Frank Milstead:


“Unfortunately, at the speeds people are driving – 80 to 85 mph – when something goes wrong – and it will go wrong, somebody will do something inappropriate – things go wrong real fast and real violently.”


This is my beef with people like you, Detroit.... You think you have a RIGHT to do whatever you want on the road. Live and let live, your not hurting anyone else, leave me alone, etc., etc. Well, when you are driving that fast, you are risking other people's lives.

Yeah, I know, you're the best driver on the face of the earth, and YOU would NEVER cause an accident. Well, even if it is not you that causes the problem (maybe someone cuts in front of you), when you are driving that fast, you simply cannot react fast enough, or you over react which leads to an accident that can involve several other cars.

And really, what's the hurry? In most cases, people who are speeding are not late for something, they just like to speed... A completely selfish act.

DPS also said they just want to tone it down to 75.

[Dewey59]

Originally Posted by DetroitN8V

No I'm not. I won't push it in congested situations, and I'd agree that doing so can be dangerous, but many times our traffic is so light that it's easy to safely go 80+, especially in a car that was designed with the Autobahn in mind. The notion that 75 is fine, but 85 is murderous is completely based in fear, and nothing more.

These are some great pieces based on FACTS. Yes, the video in the first link is from Canada, but it would certainly apply to our highways, where the speed limit and flow of traffic is in such disparity.

Viral video convinces British Columbia to raise speed limits - NY Daily News

https://www.motorists.org/does-speed-kill/

Congestion is far more dangerous than speed. It's the self-righteous drivers, so concerned with what others are doing, that cause clogs contributing to dangerous congestion. If everyone drove it the proper lane based on their skill and comfort level, our roads would be far safer, regardless of speed. Need proof? Hop a flight to Germany. It's worth the haul for the beer alone.

I've been to Germany on the autobahn. It is extremely dangerous because of the amount of traffic. Which actually supports your point about not speeding in congestion. However, I seen several instances in Germany of cars going 120+ in the far left lane in heavily congested sections of the autobahn and all of a sudden, they come up behind someone who is doing 80 because he is passing someone in the middle lane doing 75. So the 120+ driver flashes his lights to no avail and has to get on the binders. Yeah, real safe. Nearly all sections of the autobahn are congested in modern day Germany.

I agree that if people drove in a lane appropriate to their speed (as most do in Germany), it would be safer. But that is simply not the case here. But how is your complaint of drivers not being in the correct lane (according to you) not self-righteous?

Facts? Give me a break! You can find "facts" on the internet to support ANY position. There are thousands of studies that prove speed kills. But we really don't need studies - it's common sense. If I T-bone you going 60mph, I think you will agree you have less of a chance of survival than if I T-bone you going 40.

[wase4711]

Originally Posted by Dewey59

Facts? Give me a break! You can find "facts" on the internet to support ANY position. There are thousands of studies that prove speed kills. But we really don't need studies - it's common sense. If I T-bone you going 60mph, I think you will agree you have less of a chance of survival than if I T-bone you going 40.

Never let "facts" get in the way of a good story!

[DetroitN8V]

Originally Posted by Dewey59

I've been to Germany on the autobahn. It is extremely dangerous because of the amount of traffic. Which actually supports your point about not speeding in congestion. However, I seen several instances in Germany of cars going 120+ in the far left lane in heavily congested sections of the autobahn and all of a sudden, they come up behind someone who is doing 80 because he is passing someone in the middle lane doing 75. So the 120+ driver flashes his lights to no avail and has to get on the binders. Yeah, real safe. Nearly all sections of the autobahn are congested in modern day Germany.

I agree that if people drove in a lane appropriate to their speed (as most do in Germany), it would be safer. But that is simply not the case here. But how is your complaint of drivers not being in the correct lane (according to you) not self-righteous?

Facts? Give me a break! You can find "facts" on the internet to support ANY position. There are thousands of studies that prove speed kills. But we really don't need studies - it's common sense. If I T-bone you going 60mph, I think you will agree you have less of a chance of survival than if I T-bone you going 40.

LOL, no one is getting T-boned on the highway when the flow of traffic is all in the same direction. Maybe you’re confusing surface streets which haven’t included in my argument. The fact is the fatality rate on the Autobahn is far less than on US highways.

Drivers not being in the correct lane has nothing to do with self-righteousness as it’s not “according to me”. It’s according to the law in many places and according to common sense, with flow and safety in mind, in all.

[DetroitN8V]

Originally Posted by wase4711

Never let "facts" get in the way of a good story!

I posted facts. Is there a counterargument or is the childish remark all?

[Dewey59]

Originally Posted by DetroitN8V

LOL, no one is getting T-boned on the highway when the flow of traffic is all in the same direction. Maybe you’re confusing surface streets which haven’t included in my argument. The fact is the fatality rate on the Autobahn is far less than on US highways.

Drivers not being in the correct lane has nothing to do with self-righteousness as it’s not “according to me”. It’s according to the law in many places and according to common sense, with flow and safety in mind, in all.

People do get T-boned on the highway when they lose control and get sideways. The T-bone was just an example anyway, could just as easily be a head on or rear end or whatever. Based on your previous posts, I doubt you are driving the speed limits on surface streets either, so either way, my point is valid.

You are also not doing yourself any favors when you say things like "It’s according to the law in many places and according to common sense, with flow and safety in mind, in all." Um, the SPEED LIMIT is the law too!

I have often wondered who the almighty being is that determines which laws are ok to break and which aren't.... I guess it's you!

[DetroitN8V]

Originally Posted by Dewey59

People do get T-boned on the highway when they lose control and get sideways. The T-bone was just an example anyway, could just as easily be a head on or rear end or whatever. Based on your previous posts, I doubt you are driving the speed limits on surface streets either, so either way, my point is valid.

You are also not doing yourself any favors when you say things like "It’s according to the law in many places and according to common sense, with flow and safety in mind, in all." Um, the SPEED LIMIT is the law too!

I have often wondered who the almighty being is that determines which laws are ok to break and which aren't.... I guess it's you!

It's all about having the autonomy and critical thinking skills to make your own risk/reward decisions and not worrying about others'. Unless you never exceed the speed limit, which is highly unlikely, your premise is entirely hypocritical.

[wase4711]

yeah, no t bone accidents on Arizona highways...
Phoenix Fire: T-bone crash in west Phoenix, investigation ongoing - ABC15 Arizona

[DetroitN8V]

Originally Posted by wase4711

yeah, no t bone accidents on Arizona highways...
Phoenix Fire: T-bone crash in west Phoenix, investigation ongoing - ABC15 Arizona

Profound point.