Covid virus in phoenix (tax credit, payment, trip)

[MN-Born-n-Raised]

Originally Posted by Burning Madolf

How so? There is no need for perfectly healthy young people to take a shot of questionable efficacy for an ailment that has an almost 0% chance of harming them (or them even knowing they have the ailment).

Not everyone needs these shots but if old people and those with comorbidities want to take them and mask up great, that's great. Go right ahead, but the whole "pandemic of the unvaccinated" was and remains a phenomenal load of BS.

If you want to talk society, what has society as a whole done to protect themselves over the last 3 years?
Have they taken better care of themselves through diet and exercise?
Are we as a society being encouraged to take some personal responsibility when it comes to our own health?

In bold ^^. There WAS a window where it was true and it was right after the vaccine came out. X months later, there was mutation after mutation after mutation and before a new vaccine came out, the even newer variant made them semi-worthless for the majority of people.

Still, the vaccine is worthy for an at-risk person. Gone are the days when you see a younger and healthy person die or get a serious version of long-COVID. Therefore, the rules should change. And they have.

As for society changing. Oh, they have! But they are getting fatter and less healthy.

[DetroitN8V]

Originally Posted by MN-Born-n-Raised

Personally, I was on board with the vaccine with the initial variants. As in, with both feet. Now, it's a risk-reward situation. With my health/age AND the fact there is Paxlovid on the market (both for me AND for someone who potentially gets it from me), I don't see the need.

Now, if I was working in an old folks home, I'd get the vaccine. These new variants are a nothing burger in comparison to Delta. YMMV.

What's the risk though? It seems like all reward, unless one is scared of a little needle.

[Burning Madolf]

Originally Posted by MN-Born-n-Raised

In bold ^^. There WAS a window where it was true and it was right after the vaccine came out. X months later, there was mutation after mutation after mutation and before a new vaccine came out, the even newer variant made them semi-worthless for the majority of people.

Still, the vaccine is worthy for an at-risk person. Gone are the days when you see a younger and healthy person die or get a serious version of long-COVID. Therefore, the rules should change. And they have.

As for society changing. Oh, they have! But they are getting fatter and less healthy.

Yeah, that window was pretty small but the claim sure did last.

All I've been saying is that the at risk folks should do whatever they want. God bless em. There's just no need to vilify those who don't need to take a shot or mask up.

As for your last point, sad but right on target.

[MN-Born-n-Raised]

Originally Posted by DetroitN8V

What's the risk though? It seems like all reward, unless one is scared of a little needle.

Let's discuss the rewards. Because of the fast mutations, by the time the vaccine is released, it doesn't prevent COVID. Rather, it helps protect against serious illness, hospitalization, and death. The fast mutations are the same reason why some people have gotten COVID-19 3 times in a single year.

In reality, if you are healthy, the new mutations are not a big deal. Personally, I'm prepared to get this round of COVID, then take my dose of Paxlovid and call it a day. I'll change my approach in about 10-15 years.

There are risks (more or less depending on which brew you take). If I was a young male, you couldn't pay me to take the vaccine. Read https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-1...ooster%20doses. It reads: "Cases of myocarditis and pericarditis have occurred most frequently in adolescent and young adult males within 7 days after receiving the second dose of an mRNA COVID-19 vaccine; however, cases have also been observed after dose 1 and booster doses."

There are also swollen glands in the armpit or neck, chest pain, shortness of breath, feelings of having a fast-beating, fluttering, or pounding heart, cholecystitis, and nephrolithiasis. Most of these are very rare. All things being equal, I'd rather not take a vaccine. For me, there needs to be more significant upsides. Like I said, in 10-15 years, I'll be getting my boosters. If some mutations turn for the worse, I'll also get vaccinated. But this assumes I didn't get a milder version of COVID recently. Natural immunity helps your next round of COVID too.

Also, if people were dropping like flies, I'd do my part. But it's not the case in 2023.

[Valley Native]

Originally Posted by Burning Madolf

If you want to talk society, what has society as a whole done to protect themselves over the last 3 years?
Have they taken better care of themselves through diet and exercise?
Are we as a society being encouraged to take some personal responsibility when it comes to our own health?

We all know the answers to those questions. If anything, the hysteria created from COVID resulted in increased laziness because: for one thing, service workers found out they could make more money via stimulus payments & unemployment assistance than doing their jobs. Fitness centers being forced to close contributed to reduced exercise routines for many. Poor diets resulted from foods being in short supply (notably the healthier choices), and restaurants were functioning on reduced menu items. The health care slack was a combination of factors (laziness being one), and people were actually discouraged from visiting their doctors for checkups & exams.

My last post on this thread was in early 2022, and I said then (as well as during the entire pandemic) that all the lockdowns & trillions of dollars in "relief" were phenomenally absurd & ridiculous, and they had little to no effect in reducing the spread of the virus. Besides, it was never COVID itself which caused the economy to crash during 2020 ... it was the government's idiotic reaction to it. The scary part is: the government successfully controlled our lives during that time, and they can (and likely will) do it again.

[MN-Born-n-Raised]

Originally Posted by Valley Native

We all know the answers to those questions. If anything, the hysteria created from COVID resulted in increased laziness because: for one thing, service workers found out they could make more money via stimulus payments & unemployment assistance than doing their jobs. Fitness centers being forced to close contributed to reduced exercise routines for many. Poor diets resulted from foods being in short supply (notably the healthier choices), and restaurants were functioning on reduced menu items. The health care slack was a combination of factors (laziness being one), and people were actually discouraged from visiting their doctors for checkups & exams.

My last post on this thread was in early 2022, and I said then (as well as during the entire pandemic) that all the lockdowns & trillions of dollars in "relief" were phenomenally absurd & ridiculous, and they had little to no effect in reducing the spread of the virus. Besides, it was never COVID itself that caused the economy to crash during 2020 ... it was the government's idiotic reaction to it. The scary part is: the government successfully controlled our lives during that time, and they can (and likely will) do it again.

Anyone paying attention could write a book on how much waste happened during the lockdown. It was absolutely OUT OF CONTROL! You forgot about getting angry at the other side who lined their pockets with PPE money. I'm not talking about the unemployed and restaurants. My local boat dealer for instance got a $176K of PPE money and his business and profits were OFF THE CHARTS! Less product at FULL retail means they were swimming in profits. The same with a local realtor in our neighborhood. She has no employees and she got $40K (two PPE payments). Again, RECORD sales for her as housing went through the roof and she was listing and selling up a storm in our neighborhood. I can go on and on and on. Every single one of those people didn't have to pay it back. See it for yourself (type in the zip)! Show me who had to pay it back? 0.0%. https://projects.propublica.org/coro...inc-7128637203

You forgot about the schools that were closed, and kids lost > year of performance.https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...nwid-rcna53659 If we had small kids in school, we would have worked with them non-stop and they would have come back wiser. But that's how we roll. To assume online learning works for everyone was idiotic and we will suffer as a society down the road because of it.

That said, you are modifying history. If there wasn't a lockdown, OF COURSE the (then) deadly and in combination of often debilitating (Long COVID) would have kicked our arse! Yeah, most would have been fine. But the disruption would have been catastrophic in a different way. What's the saying, hindsight is 20-20. Let's hope we can learn from this when the next round comes along. But something tells me that's not going to happen. Seemingly, this always comes down to politics. Yours (libertarian) is different that overly liberal which is a different viewpoint than someone who is overly conservative. The correct answer is somewhere in the middle. And by definition, no matter what the policy, there will be winners and losers. But people are going to view things through their own (political) lens. For many, there is no amount of logic that will convince them otherwise.

[MN-Born-n-Raised]

Originally Posted by Burning Madolf

Yeah, that window was pretty small but the claim sure did last.

All I've been saying is that the at risk folks should do whatever they want. God bless em. There's just no need to vilify those who don't need to take a shot or mask up.

As for your last point, sad but right on target.

I'd have to look back. But I think it was 6(ish) months. In hindsight, maybe the right approach was to lock down anyone with a risk and let the virus mutate like crap. Normally, the eventual result is less deadly while becoming more contagious. Of course, that would have been an educated dice roll. But politics are involved. And no one wants to be the person who goes down that path. Well, other than Sweeden. They were the canary in the mine. Meanwhile, I was busy getting healthy because I was paying attention.

[Burning Madolf]

Originally Posted by MN-Born-n-Raised

I'd have to look back. But I think it was 6(ish) months. In hindsight, maybe the right approach was to lock down anyone with a risk and let the virus mutate like crap. Normally, the eventual result is less deadly while becoming more contagious. Of course, that would have been an educated dice roll. But politics are involved. And no one wants to be the person who goes down that path. Well, other than Sweeden. They were the canary in the mine. Meanwhile, I was busy getting healthy because I was paying attention.

If there can ever be a silver lining to Covid it is that some percentage of the population saw this as a wake up call to do what is necessary to give their bodies a fighting chance.

[phetaroi]

Originally Posted by DetroitN8V

That fails to consider that we live in a society.

Correct. It's a totally selfish attitude.

[Burning Madolf]

Originally Posted by phetaroi

Correct. It's a totally selfish attitude.

So lay it out for everyone.

How does a perfectly healthy young man not taking the shot harm you?

You don't have to be too specific, just nutshell it.