Covid virus in phoenix (homeowner, rental property, investments)
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At the beginning of the pandemic, I was in the same camp. Once Omicron hit, that changed the math. It's like the flu. 40K die from the Flu (normally older or unhealthy people). Personally, I will be getting the flu shot. But should your grandkids get it? Would that be 'selfish' if they didn't bother?
I'd define selfish as healthy teachers who post Omicron refused to go into the classroom. Personally, I plug and chug the tradeoffs in my head and take the appropriate action. No decision comes without consequences.
If there can ever be a silver lining to Covid it is that some percentage of the population saw this as a wake up call to do what is necessary to give their bodies a fighting chance.
I'm a huge fan of personal responsibility. I don't give excuses and I don't want to hear about them for others. But in 2023, Mother Government will make it ALL better! We just cannot have anyone hurting any longer. It's not their fault.
At the beginning of the pandemic, I was in the same camp. Once Omicron hit, that changed the math. It's like the flu. 40K die from the Flu (normally older or unhealthy people). Personally, I will be getting the flu shot. But should your grandkids get it? Would that be 'selfish' if they didn't bother?
I'd define selfish as healthy teachers who post Omicron refused to go into the classroom. Personally, I plug and chug the tradeoffs in my head and take the appropriate action. No decision comes without consequences.
No, covid is much worse. The risk of death from covid is four times higher that it is from flu. Not only that, but covid carries a relatively high risk of symptoms and morbidities that continue long after the virus is gone. If someone is at risk for a serious flu infection their risk is even higher for a serious covid infection. Why in the world would anyone with knowledge and facts opt for a flu shot and pass on the covid shot? Especially with the new formation covid shots that appear to be effective at preventing infection with the currently circulating variant - something that may or may not be the case with flu. Get both (or neither if feeling lucky). And maybe RSV while you are there.
Anyone paying attention could write a book on how much waste happened during the lockdown. It was absolutely OUT OF CONTROL! You forgot about getting angry at the other side who lined their pockets with PPE money. I'm not talking about the unemployed and restaurants. My local boat dealer for instance got a $176K of PPE money and his business and profits were OFF THE CHARTS! Less product at FULL retail means they were swimming in profits. The same with a local realtor in our neighborhood. She has no employees and she got $40K (two PPE payments). Again, RECORD sales for her as housing went through the roof and she was listing and selling up a storm in our neighborhood. I can go on and on and on. Every single one of those people didn't have to pay it back. See it for yourself (type in the zip)! Show me who had to pay it back? 0.0%. https://projects.propublica.org/coro...inc-7128637203
I didn't forget. The overload of nonsense involved was incredible to say the least. A report from this year revealed how billions of dollars in COVID funds were not only wasted, but stolen (see above link). I love the response about how the government had very little oversight and few restrictions on the payouts. Basically, a free for all. Plenty of mooching on PPP, stimulus payments, child tax credits, unemployment benefits, housing assistance, etc., but I didn't profit because I didn't qualify and didn't need any of that. Still, the amount of handouts and fraud that occurred should make anybody upset.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MN-Born-n-Raised
You forgot about the schools that were closed, and kids lost > year of performance.https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...nwid-rcna53659 If we had small kids in school, we would have worked with them non-stop and they would have come back wiser. But that's how we roll. To assume online learning works for everyone was idiotic and we will suffer as a society down the road because of it.
Same concept can be applied to the theory that working online/remotely is for everybody. It should be available for those who need to be at home for whatever reason, and hybrid schedules can achieve the needed work/life balance, but it's ridiculous to believe that it works across the board. Many companies invested large sums of money into new office space prior to the pandemic, so how does it improve bottom line revenue to have those offices sit virtually empty? Much like being in school, working in the office has a way of improving scores (overall productivity), and better chances for advancement. It's not exactly good to be isolated & introverted all the time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MN-Born-n-Raised
That said, you are modifying history. If there wasn't a lockdown, OF COURSE the (then) deadly and in combination of often debilitating (Long COVID) would have kicked our arse! Yeah, most would have been fine. But the disruption would have been catastrophic in a different way. What's the saying, hindsight is 20-20. Let's hope we can learn from this when the next round comes along. But something tells me that's not going to happen.
As a country, I'm afraid we haven't learned much of anything from that huge boondoggle. Certain politicians and their supporters still defend the actions, and this includes "experts" like Fauci. Incidentally, we all know what President approved the initial trillions in spending: the same one who rants endlessly about election fraud while a huge amount of fraud was happening with the payouts he approved. And of course, we all know which President continued the frivolous spending afterward. Both sides are to blame.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MN-Born-n-Raised
Seemingly, this always comes down to politics. Yours (libertarian) is different that overly liberal which is a different viewpoint than someone who is overly conservative. The correct answer is somewhere in the middle. And by definition, no matter what the policy, there will be winners and losers. But people are going to view things through their own (political) lens. For many, there is no amount of logic that will convince them otherwise.
I believe I've been somewhere in the middle on this issue (more or less). While I was adamantly opposed to the frivolous spending & lockdowns, I was concerned about the virus itself and highly supportive of the vaccines ... just not in favor of vaccine mandates. Also, while I'm still a Libertarian in principle, I recently switched to independent, mainly because I'm fed up with political parties. No side seems to offer any workable solution other than more spending, more intervention, and more divisiveness. Unfortunately, this doesn't seem to be getting any better, and I dread to see what our response as a nation will be to the next "emergency".
No, covid is much worse. The risk of death from covid is four times higher that it is from flu. Not only that, but covid carries a relatively high risk of symptoms and morbidities that continue long after the virus is gone. If someone is at risk for a serious flu infection their risk is even higher for a serious covid infection. Why in the world would anyone with knowledge and facts opt for a flu shot and pass on the covid shot? Especially with the new formation covid shots that appear to be effective at preventing infection with the currently circulating variant - something that may or may not be the case with flu. Get both (or neither if feeling lucky). And maybe RSV while you are there.
1. Re: the data in comparison to the flu: apple-orange. The new variants of COVID-19 spread much more easily than the flu. You cannot extract which one is more deadly because of that. Who knows, maybe COVID is taking out the frail people before the flu gets to them. For instance, in the USA 2021 to 2022 season, Only 5000 people died from the flu which is 1/10th of what it was years earlier. The UofMN flawed logic then might suggest that since we lost 192K people in the same season from COVID 19 in the USA versus 5,000 of the flu, it must be 192K/5K or "38x more deadly". That's how they made their conclusion with the French data!? It's relevant, but a flawed conclusion. See https://www.axios.com/2023/05/05/us-...rates-fall-cdc
Here is a graph of the flu deaths over time https://www.statista.com/statistics/...ths-number-us/
2. The current mortality of COVID-19 occurs 58% of the time in people over 80 years old. https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/72/...nance%20period. Nearly all of the younger deaths have serious comorbidities. Often, lung-related. Hence, I mentioned I might make a different decision in 10 years.
3. Several studies concluded that vaccinated people get a high level of breakthrough infections amid COVID-19 because of rapid mutations. It seems that the vaccines target the spike (S) protein which mutates like mad. So far, the current variant of concern is also highly mutated (BA.2.86). According to Moderna, their pending jab due out in late September seems to work (and I am sure the efficacy dropped and there will be plenty of breakthrough infections.
4. Like the last several rounds of jabs and with 7.9 billion people on this planet, I expect the pending vaccine to dwindle quickly too. Watch again, quickly, even this pending round of jabs will only be effective in preventing severe infection and death.... So does Paxlovid! Re: Paxlovid. If my goal is to dodge the harmful impact of COVID-19 without the jab, then I should have PAXLOVID on my shelf (which I do). Read https://www.statnews.com/2022/05/18/...e%20medication. [i]"There are two noteworthy facts about the people who were allowed to participate in the Paxlovid trial, all of whom were both unvaccinated and had never previously had Covid-19. First, even when the Paxlovid trial began in July 2021, only a minority of Americans fit into the category of unvaccinated and Covid-naive, so the results of the trial have never been directly applicable to most Americans. Second, Paxlovid would be significantly more effective in people who have not been primed by vaccination or prior infection, so th"e trial supporting its use serves to exaggerate the benefit that most people would see from the medication.
5. The flu shot seems to have far less harmful side effects.
All that said, after just reading ^^ that the Moderna vaccine seems to work against the BA.2.86, I might get this latest round of jabs but ONLY the one at the end of the month. Big picture: I don't want to feel like crap. At age 58, I'm healthy and exercising at least an hour a day. Statistically speaking, I'm not going to die from COVID-19. If the vaccine was almost guaranteed to have a breakthrough (like those who are getting the jab that is being administered today), I'd punt and rely on Paxlovid. To me at least, that's logical.
A final point: several smart people have suggested that receiving too many booster shots could exhaust your T cells. Here is one https://www.verywellhealth.com/too-m...20against%20it. So I am slightly concerned about taking every new vaccine version that is offered. There is a lot of groupthink going on in the medical community. I'm not 100% convinced all of these shots people are taking are a good thing. Hence, my hesitation.
But, after typing all of this, I will probably get this specific round of pending vaccine. Mostly because I gained back 20 of the 50 pounds that I lost (though, a lot of the added weight was muscle). I digress......
Last edited by MN-Born-n-Raised; 09-08-2023 at 04:59 AM..
1. Re: the data in comparison to the flu: apple-orange. The new variants of COVID-19 spread much more easily than the flu. You cannot extract which one is more deadly because of that. Who knows, maybe COVID is taking out the frail people before the flu gets to them. For instance, in the USA 2021 to 2022 season, Only 5000 people died from the flu which is 1/10th of what it was years earlier. The UofMN flawed logic then might suggest that since we lost 192K people in the same season from COVID 19 in the USA versus 5,000 of the flu, it must be 192K/5K or "38x more deadly". That's how they made their conclusion with the French data!? It's relevant, but a flawed conclusion. See https://www.axios.com/2023/05/05/us-...rates-fall-cdc
Here is a graph of the flu deaths over time https://www.statista.com/statistics/...ths-number-us/
2. The current mortality of COVID-19 occurs 58% of the time in people over 80 years old. https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/72/...nance%20period. Nearly all of the younger deaths have serious comorbidities. Often, lung-related. Hence, I mentioned I might make a different decision in 10 years.
3. Several studies concluded that vaccinated people get a high level of breakthrough infections amid COVID-19 because of rapid mutations. It seems that the vaccines target the spike (S) protein which mutates like mad. So far, the current variant of concern is also highly mutated (BA.2.86). According to Moderna, their pending jab due out in late September seems to work (and I am sure the efficacy dropped and there will be plenty of breakthrough infections.
4. Like the last several rounds of jabs and with 7.9 billion people on this planet, I expect the pending vaccine to dwindle quickly too. Watch again, quickly, even this pending round of jabs will only be effective in preventing severe infection and death.... So does Paxlovid! Re: Paxlovid. If my goal is to dodge the harmful impact of COVID-19 without the jab, then I should have PAXLOVID on my shelf (which I do). Read https://www.statnews.com/2022/05/18/...e%20medication. [i]"There are two noteworthy facts about the people who were allowed to participate in the Paxlovid trial, all of whom were both unvaccinated and had never previously had Covid-19. First, even when the Paxlovid trial began in July 2021, only a minority of Americans fit into the category of unvaccinated and Covid-naive, so the results of the trial have never been directly applicable to most Americans. Second, Paxlovid would be significantly more effective in people who have not been primed by vaccination or prior infection, so th"e trial supporting its use serves to exaggerate the benefit that most people would see from the medication.
5. The flu shot seems to have far less harmful side effects.
All that said, after just reading ^^ that the Moderna vaccine seems to work against the BA.2.86, I might get this latest round of jabs but ONLY the one at the end of the month. Big picture: I don't want to feel like crap. At age 58, I'm healthy and exercising at least an hour a day. Statistically speaking, I'm not going to die from COVID-19. If the vaccine was almost guaranteed to have a breakthrough (like those who are getting the jab that is being administered today), I'd punt and rely on Paxlovid. To me at least, that's logical.
A final point: several smart people have suggested that receiving too many booster shots could exhaust your T cells. Here is one https://www.verywellhealth.com/too-m...20against%20it. So I am slightly concerned about taking every new vaccine version that is offered. There is a lot of groupthink going on in the medical community. I'm not 100% convinced all of these shots people are taking are a good thing. Hence, my hesitation.
But, after typing all of this, I will probably get this specific round of pending vaccine. Mostly because I gained back 20 of the 50 pounds that I lost (though, a lot of the added weight was muscle). I digress......
I stand by my statement that anyone who feels their health/work or whatever situation makes a flu shot wise should also be getting a covid vaccine and probably an RSV one too. The latter is new and RSV does not harvest a lot of old people - even those in not so hot condition. It does make babies really sick, so maybe people who might be around them should consider it regardless of their personal risk.
How does a perfectly healthy young man not taking the shot harm you?
You don't have to be too specific, just nutshell it.
Okay. I had covid. To prevent others from getting it, I isolated for the first 5 days as recommended. Since then -- to prevent others from getting it -- I have double-masked. I have done everything I could do to protect myself, and, if I did get covid, to prevent others from catching it from me.
I stand by my statement that anyone who feels their health/work or whatever situation makes a flu shot wise should also be getting a covid vaccine and probably an RSV one too. The latter is new and RSV does not harvest a lot of old people - even those in not so hot condition. It does make babies really sick, so maybe people who might be around them should consider it regardless of their personal risk.
As I mentioned, currently my biggest concern is ruining a vacation or simply feeling sick. As I age, the risks increase. Plus, I'd sleep better when I would off some extra pounds too. IMO, the 'risk' of specifically getting the COVID vaccine (and it depends too on the brew) is far from zero. No, it's not high. But it's far from perfect. With the CDC recommendation, they too are doing the risk-reward type math and applying it equally to seemingly everyone. I think that's a little disingenuous.
All that said, I'll probably get them both at the same time (end of Sept.) when I get back to AZ. Still, Paxlovid worked like a champ on my one and only COVID event. I took it immediately after I tested positive (I had it in hand). I was tired for a day and walked 16 miles the following. For me and with Paxlovid, it felt like the mildest flu ever... As for some background, I got the Omicron version and my initial Delta Vaccine was no longer worth of anything. Personally, as I age, I sleep a lot better knowing Paxlovid works for me. My wife got COVID twice (same technique; she took it immediately) and she had a rebound both times. Personally, I had 0.0% faith in Ivermectin. I digress...
Last edited by MN-Born-n-Raised; 09-08-2023 at 09:18 AM..
Okay. I had covid. To prevent others from getting it, I isolated for the first 5 days as recommended. Since then -- to prevent others from getting it -- I have double-masked. I have done everything I could do to protect myself, and, if I did get covid, to prevent others from catching it from me.
This is not brain surgery.
Burning asked: "How does a perfectly healthy young man not taking the shot harm you?" I know how it can harm that perfectly healthy young man. Now, it seems they might have a better understanding of why https://www.statnews.com/2023/05/05/...accines-study/
Since Omicron, I think it is rational for younger people to refuse the vaccine if they choose to do so. Especially young males. Still, staying away from others seems like common sense. But most don't bother. I know several people who feel sick and refuse to test for COVID so they don't lose income or feel guilty. Like it or not, that's the way many people behave.
Okay. I had covid. To prevent others from getting it, I isolated for the first 5 days as recommended. Since then -- to prevent others from getting it -- I have double-masked. I have done everything I could do to protect myself, and, if I did get covid, to prevent others from catching it from me.
This is not brain surgery.
That doesn't come close to answering my question but it does show that YOU are doing what YOU are supposed to do if you get Covid or any other contagious illness (not sure about the double masking, but whatever floats your boat).
Now, my 30 year old neighbor who goes to the gym before sunrise (and work) everyday and looks like he doesn't have an ounce of body fat, doesn't need to take a shot for an ailment that probably won't harm him.
You're under the assumption that you can prevent Covid from spreading (not your fault, this has been the narrative for years now) which is an absolute impossibility.
Here's my anecdotal Covid story: late last year we made plans to meet in CA in spring 2023 with family from the east coast. My wife and I were absolutely certain that we would get sick since we'd be hanging in a house with teens and adults who live in places like NYC. We prepared as best we could by upping our own health routines and even doing things like downing Airborne gummies everyday before and during our trip (in addition to our usual diet, exercise and supplements).
Sure enough, on the drive home we both felt a little crappy and ended up in bed for 24-48 hours with a cough and mild fever. We had some "free" government provided Covid tests and for the first time I took one. It was inconclusive but my wife's was positive. We stayed away from everyone for the rest of the week, but I went back to my morning walk as soon as I could (other exercises had to go a little slower).
My point is, you can plan all you want and try not to give or get Covid, but there's no way in hell you can avoid it by trying to force treatments on people who don't need them.
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