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If someone has a raspatory illness probably a good idea to wear a mask keep the coughing contained.
ER's generally not going to be pleasant experiences I get that. When I got there, they did a chest Xray, and EKG right away. I was able to look up the results on my phone within an hour which said my tests were normal. I concluded if they were good with me waiting 5+ hours it was not an emergency.
Banner sends too many people to the ER for issues that are -- by their own definition -- not emergencies. Thus the ER is more full than it needs to be.
The initial COVID-19 wasn't anything close to the flu. With the H1N1 (swine) flu, about 200,000 people died worldwide. Before the Omncron mutation, COVID-19 claimed many millions more deaths. Those high numbers happened with a massive lockdown.
And I clearly said that COVID is different from influenza, but the symptoms which many people had from COVID were very similar to the flu. Many others who acquired it only had mild cold symptoms. Sure, there were those who became seriously ill & died from COVID, which was unfortunate, but many have also died from various flu strains. Cancer affects & kills more people than COVID, but guess what? No cancer pandemic was ever declared (at least not anywhere to the extent of COVID), despite the amount of toxic chemicals we're exposed to which cause or contribute to it. I won't even get into the outdated cancer treatments! In any case, there's not a need to force widespread lockdowns . The large number of COVID cases occurred with the lockdowns in place, as you stated, proving that they didn't do much of anything to stop the spread.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MN-Born-n-Raised
And as a reminder, the entire world was reacting the way they were for some extremely good reasons. Originally, it was the farthest thing from the flu. Of course, for many people, it was no different. So every media and government around the world mostly behaved the same way. In hindsight, timothyaw's^^ statement was the correct approach. Using your approach, there would have been a lot of collateral damage.
I was (and still am to a certain extent) concerned about COVID, especially since I'm a caregiver, and I also have other elderly friends & family members with health issues. What I'm trying to emphasize is: the entire pandemic has been massively overblown. This should be obvious after seeing all the panic: hoarding of grocery items, people being afraid to interact with anybody else, medical & dental visits canceled, major events canceled, businesses suffered huge losses, and the list goes on. The economy screeched to a halt as a result of all that insanity. One of my first posts on this thread over 3 years ago stated that the nation will likely be damaged by the economic fallout more than by the virus itself, and it was absolutely correct. The economic impact was something which was mostly avoidable in the first place.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MN-Born-n-Raised
If your point was that we didn't lock down in the same way during polio, that would have been a much better comparison. Some people who got polio were asymptomatic while the overwhelming majority had flu-like systems. Sound familiar? Still, during the 1940s and 1950s, polio paralyzed or killed half a million people worldwide every year. A lot less than COVID. Imagine if we used your approach and it was a free-for-all.
My mistake for not comparing it to the Polio outbreak, which probably would have been more accurate. The main difference between COVID & Polio, of course, was how the nation reacted. During Polio, businesses weren't forced to completely shut down or reduce services, there were no widespread isolation orders, massive amounts of "relief" aid packages weren't handed out freely, schools & workplaces didn't require everyone to learn or work remotely, people didn't have to neglect their own health care or put their lives on hold due to Polio being a national emergency. None of us have all the correct answers to these issues, but fear mongering & kneejerk reactions often have much more devastating impacts to society than a virus does on its own.
And I clearly said that COVID is different from influenza, but the symptoms which many people had from COVID were very similar to the flu. Many others who acquired it only had mild cold symptoms. Sure, there were those who became seriously ill & died from COVID, which was unfortunate, but many have also died from various flu strains.
I read that. I was addressing the following:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Valley Native
Although different from influenza,it was really no worse than some of the major flu outbreaks in the last century. H1N1 was a serious strain in 2009, which I caught & became pretty sick from (as did many others).
As you probably read, I was only addressing the impact of pre-Omnicron mutations. Sure. For the vast majority of people, it was "flu-like symptoms". If that was your only point, then say so. If not, you are still missing it. Look at the magnitude of deaths (Polio OR the Swine Flu etc) With COVID, people sheltered in place to the point where a fraction of the people got a cold and flu. Meaning, the ability to contract COVID-19 was knocked down beyond any attempt. By definition, that prevented millions of more COVID deaths. When more and more (and more) people had someone close to them die (or witnessed extremely long COVID-19 impacts), the world would have crawled under a rock all by themselves without government mandates. I surely would have done anything to avoid getting hurt and landing up in the hospital. Because the hospitals would have been hammered! As in, not biking, no tennis or pickleball etc. I would have mitigated my risks.
Emphasizing my point, the total death of Polio and the Swine Flu was a fraction of the COIVID deaths. Add in that those viruses didn't have a lockdown. The lockdown worked to the point that it was enough to decimate the cold and flu transmission! Surely, you must be able to calculate in your brain that these events were dramatically different, and without a lockdown, there would have been multiple times more deaths.
Did doctors and CDC-like departments around the world over-recommend the lockdown (duration, scope, etc)? Hell YES! Did we spend waaaaaaaaaaaay too much money? Absolutely! I propose the following. My MIL and your loved ones would have been at a MUCH higher risk if we didn't lock down. It's simply math. I'm o.k. with you saying you are willing to take that risk in the spirit of Darwinism. Rest assured there would have been all kinds of other impacts including financial that would have occurred without a lockdown. It wasn't personal for a lot of people. So they acted accordingly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Valley Native
None of us have all the correct answers to these issues, but fear mongering & kneejerk reactions often have much more devastating impacts to society than a virus does on its own.
We agree ^^. But the government didn't hoard TP and wipes. Nor did the government mandate teachers to refuse to work in the classroom or dentist offices close because no one was showing up or, many other _____________. I voluntarily changed my routine and of course, I dodged COVID until after Omnicron. Statistically (>90%), I probably would have been fine. Or, it could have been my brother who was choking up telling me he thought he was going to die (in the hospital for 2 weeks and out of work for 3 months). He thought it was a joke.
And maybe he would have died if it had been a free-for-all. Because he would/could have been treated by an OBGYN covering for a pulmonologist. To some level, that was already occurring and people were dying because the fill-in docs lacked expertise.
As A REMINDER, 1/2 of the population is below-average intelligence. Both political parties have members that belong to the left side of the bell-shaped curve. The proper approach with its set of trade-offs was in between. In hindsight, it's much more obvious. But you won't hear me comparing H1N1 to the initial variants of COVID-19. Well, other than many of their symptoms were the same. The initial scale is not REMOTELY close in comparison! To suggest otherwise tells me you don't have a handle on death rates and just how many people dodged the bullet because of it. ALL THE WHILE, governments and people went way overboard.
The horse has been beaten.
Last edited by MN-Born-n-Raised; 09-11-2023 at 05:01 AM..
And I clearly said that COVID is different from influenza, but the symptoms which many people had from COVID were very similar to the flu. Many others who acquired it only had mild cold symptoms. Sure, there were those who became seriously ill & died from COVID, which was unfortunate, but many have also died from various flu strains. Cancer affects & kills more people than COVID, but guess what? No cancer pandemic was ever declared (at least not anywhere to the extent of COVID), despite the amount of toxic chemicals we're exposed to which cause or contribute to it. I won't even get into the outdated cancer treatments! In any case, there's not a need to force widespread lockdowns . The large number of COVID cases occurred with the lockdowns in place, as you stated, proving that they didn't do much of anything to stop the spread.
I was (and still am to a certain extent) concerned about COVID, especially since I'm a caregiver, and I also have other elderly friends & family members with health issues. What I'm trying to emphasize is: the entire pandemic has been massively overblown. This should be obvious after seeing all the panic: hoarding of grocery items, people being afraid to interact with anybody else, medical & dental visits canceled, major events canceled, businesses suffered huge losses, and the list goes on. The economy screeched to a halt as a result of all that insanity. One of my first posts on this thread over 3 years ago stated that the nation will likely be damaged by the economic fallout more than by the virus itself, and it was absolutely correct. The economic impact was something which was mostly avoidable in the first place.
My mistake for not comparing it to the Polio outbreak, which probably would have been more accurate. The main difference between COVID & Polio, of course, was how the nation reacted. During Polio, businesses weren't forced to completely shut down or reduce services, there were no widespread isolation orders, massive amounts of "relief" aid packages weren't handed out freely, schools & workplaces didn't require everyone to learn or work remotely, people didn't have to neglect their own health care or put their lives on hold due to Polio being a national emergency. None of us have all the correct answers to these issues, but fear mongering & kneejerk reactions often have much more devastating impacts to society than a virus does on its own.
You couldn't work remotely in the time of polio because we did not have the technology to do so readily available.
You couldn't work remotely in the time of polio because we did not have the technology to do so readily available.
The point was: other outbreaks prior to COVID didn't cause such widespread hysteria, mandatory lockdowns, free government handouts given to practically anybody, or people being discouraged from seeing their doctors for other health issues. But you chose to pinpoint remote working, and how it wasn't possible without technology. The web link below proves how incorrect your statement is because people did this in various forms long before online technology. This entire topic has been beaten to death, and I'm done with it.
My SO acquired a mild case of the Coronavirus but a co-worker was very sick with it.
I'd be wanting answers why this virus is so wide spread in the PHX area. Is it because people here won't wear masks, or don't get tested and vaccinated as readily as other places?
The point was: other outbreaks prior to COVID didn't cause such widespread hysteria, mandatory lockdowns, free government handouts given to practically anybody, or people being discouraged from seeing their doctors for other health issues. But you chose to pinpoint remote working, and how it wasn't possible without technology. The web link below proves how incorrect your statement is because people did this in various forms long before online technology. This entire topic has been beaten to death, and I'm done with it.
2 years ago, I walked into a gas station and was not only chastised for not wearing a mask, but ridiculed for paying with cash instead of using the notsosafe pay at the pump method with debit/credit card.
My SO acquired a mild case of the Coronavirus but a co-worker was very sick with it.
I'd be wanting answers why this virus is so wide spread in the PHX area. Is it because people here won't wear masks, or don't get tested and vaccinated as readily as other places?
It's because the NEW variant had multiple mutations. Practically speaking, it's like starting over. Because a vaccine or previous infection won't stop you from getting the new version. The newer mutations are higher in the lungs versus the initial variants which were deep in the lungs (DEEP in the lungs caused people to get extremely sick). Now, that means you get far less sick BUT it is 50% more contagious (coughing now spreads more particulates on the newer permutations).
Since more particulates are generated in the new mutations (higher in the lungs), some theorize that the viral load in order to get COVID is easier to get. If true, a mask is less effective.
My SO acquired a mild case of the Coronavirus but a co-worker was very sick with it.
I'd be wanting answers why this virus is so wide spread in the PHX area. Is it because people here won't wear masks, or don't get tested and vaccinated as readily as other places?
The virus spreads because that's what viruses do.
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With the H1N1 (swine) flu, about 200,000 people died worldwide. Before the Omncron mutation, COVID-19 claimed many millions more deaths. Those high numbers happened with a massive lockdown.
I propose the following. My MIL and your loved ones would have been at a MUCH higher risk if we didn't lock down. It's simply math. I'm o.k. with you saying you are willing to take that risk in the spirit of Darwinism. Rest assured there would have been all kinds of other impacts including financial that would have occurred without a lockdown. It wasn't personal for a lot of people. So they acted accordingly.
