Phoenix, the most unaffordable "affordable" place to live (layoffs, prices)
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It was like this in 1987, same catch-22. I used to read the employment ads paying minimum wage or a little more and requiring 2 years of experience! HA! there you have it. Catch -22. I stopped going to those job interviews just to be told you have no experience in what they needed. Total waste of time.
I left the city I was in and went to a city that is affordable, responded to ads that said " we will train " ,
Jobs like ' Utility locator, construction labor, Traffic control barricade set up, Warehouse shipping receiving, really hard jobs with some overtime. there was not much energy left for SIDE JOBS. I tried it working two jobs and getting 4 hours of sleep ( night janitor for offices ). slept all day on Sunday.
Slept on an ex-wife's coach for three months to save for a tiny crappy apt, Lived on the Taco bell party pack and rice and beans. I was mad and pissed off, and I used my anger to fuel my determination. I gave every job 110 % in spite of my lowly situation. I found something positive
I am an Idealist, Luck only changes if you believe it will. If you look for it. I read these stupid articles that say get a side hustle they say! these are written for the new economy for people with exceptional skills not for me. I Try not to invest in confirmation bias, ( If I believe I won't succeed then I won't).
Life will kick some people in the ass. I have spent the last 4 years helping a friend with a very unusual medical, and biological problem. I have spent over $ 100,000 dollars on this problem. Right when I finally had financial security this happened. Not everybody says " I got mine too bad for you ". There are a few rare people who will give you a break and are not easy to find.
If I end up renting a bedroom in someone's house oh well, I gave it my best. I stayed positive.
You know sending out a resume for a job in which you have little or no actual work experience is a long shot. This is nothing new esp. for jobs which are desirable.
Think of ways to get your foot in the door of companies which might not be listing job openings. Re-write and re-write again your cover letter. Have someone look over the cover letter. Maybe it needs work. Maybe it needs a lot of work.
You'll also need to do the research. You might not end up with the exact job you want. You might have to relocate. However, if the company is solid and there are opportunities for advancement and most important you like the work (or at least don't hate it...) go for it.
My wife is a great person with a lot of good qualities. Unfortunately she can have a negative attitude, "What if you lose your job, what if they say no, what if this or what if that..."
It was like this in 1987, same catch-22. I used to read the employment ads paying minimum wage or a little more and requiring 2 years of experience! HA! there you have it. Catch -22. I stopped going to those job interviews just to be told you have no experience in what they needed. Total waste of time.
I left the city I was in and went to a city that is affordable, responded to ads that said " we will train " ,
Jobs like ' Utility locator, construction labor, Traffic control barricade set up, Warehouse shipping receiving, really hard jobs with some overtime. there was not much energy left for SIDE JOBS. I tried it working two jobs and getting 4 hours of sleep ( night janitor for offices ). slept all day on Sunday.
Slept on an ex-wife's coach for three months to save for a tiny crappy apt, Lived on the Taco bell party pack and rice and beans. I was mad and pissed off, and I used my anger to fuel my determination. I gave every job 110 % in spite of my lowly situation. I found something positive
I am an Idealist, Luck only changes if you believe it will. If you look for it. I read these stupid articles that say get a side hustle they say! these are written for the new economy for people with exceptional skills not for me. I Try not to invest in negative confirmation bias, ( If I believe I won't succeed then I won't).
Life will kick some people in the ass. I have spent the last 4 years helping a friend with a very unusual medical, and biological problem. I have spent over $ 100,000 dollars on this problem. Right when I finally had financial security this happened. Not everybody says " I got mine too bad for you ". There are a few rare people who will give you a break and are not easy to find.
If I end up renting a bedroom in someone's house oh well, I gave it my best. I stayed positive.
While what you did speaks highly of your character taking on a 100k debt for a friend is costly. Especially if you're not in a strong financial position yourself.
Employers do not count Mcjob experience toward higher paying career jobs. They clearly did back in 1987.
Those jobs don't exist anymore. You got lucky and found someone willing to give you a chance.
The job market has changed drastically since 1987.
Name and location of this miraculous company that does not enforce a catch-22, please.
No experience means no interview in the rest of the career job companies.
Not in the rest of the career job companies.
Apparently only at your company. No others.
I agree.
But the catch-22 means the lowest rung on the ladder is unreachable.
No skills or experience = Mcjob.
Skills DO exist outside of work experience - but employers do not see skills until one is paid for it.
Skills but no experience = no career job for you, Mcjob or sales job time.
Those "cushy office jobs" require experience in the role they are trying to get.
Employers do not count Mcjob experience. You need to update your 1987 view of the job market.
Like what? Another Mcjob? We have people working multiple Mcjobs doing that.
Someone trying to get off the Mcjob merry-go-round by learning new skills winds up thus "why is this Starbucks barista trying to get a job as a business analyst" says the hiring manager, throwing the resume and cover letter in the garbage, which outlines the education and skills as a business analyst obtained from that education.
Sales and Mcjobs do. All the others expect you to have already worked in the role you're trying to get for the first time somehow.
Since you act like the profound expert on how companies screen applicants and hire new employees, maybe you can tell me how my company has been able to place jobs for numerous new hires over the last few years ... many of whom had no previous experience, other than college and "McJobs" (as you call them). I'll tell you how: they had satisfactory interview skills, eagerness to learn, and a strong work ethic. It also helps to do research on the company where you're applying, and have a detailed (but not overly wordy) resume.
I was a hiring manager for a while at my company (not in 1987, but fairly recently), and I met & interviewed plenty of people who were not only severely inexperienced, they were sloppy in their grooming, mannerisms, and in speech with no clue on how to present themselves for interviews. You bet those applications/resumes were tossed in a hurry. So were those who had criminal backgrounds. On the other hand, I helped hire & recruit many others who lacked experience, but presented themselves as goal oriented professionals. They weren't hired as business analysts, but they were offered entry level positions, and had the opportunity to move into higher paying jobs with more responsibility when the time came. A few of them are now in management.
One problem with the Phoenix job market: there are plenty of call centers, back office, and regional HQs, but not enough national/global HQs. The larger firms that are here will offer a wide array of decent paying jobs, but they're mostly at the mid level. Many of the high level executive positions are based at the corporate HQs (often in NYC, Chicago, San Francisco, etc.). I've been an advocate for Phoenix having more corporate HQs ... however, there is still plenty of opportunity for a person to be employed at a firm earning a decent salary with good benefits (hardly a "McJob").
You're correct that a lot has changed in the job market since the '80s ... mostly on the technology end. In regard to working something other than a "McJob" and climbing the ladder, a lot of the basic strategies are still the same as 30+ years ago. The person who is dependable and meets standards will likely always have a steady job ... however, this alone isn't enough to climb the ladder. Being a "people person", networking, learning other job functions outside of your own, and having a positive attitude (something you severely lack) are some of the keys to getting ahead. When I was in management, I would always encourage my employees to join networking groups if they had a desire to break out out of your "catch 22" and move upward in the company.
Lastly, I know for a fact that many well known companies with corporate centers in the Phoenix area offer entry level white collar positions to young people who lack experience. A few of them: Cox Communications, Wells Fargo, Bank of America, JP Morgan Chase, Discover Financial Services, State Farm, Charles Schwab, etc. You can keep focusing on being stuck in the "catch 22 McJob" world if you choose, but you're just spinning your wheels, and digging deeper with your blatant negativity & excuses.
Cut back on unnecessary expenses. Pack your lunch and cook at home instead of eating out. Is upgrading to the latest, greatest smart phone really necessary? Clip coupons for grocrey shopping. With the gas prices the way they are, walking, biking, or taking public transit would be less expensive options than driving your own vehicle. I completely agree that wages are not keeping up with the cost of living, but there are many things a person can do to be frugal and save money.
All of these ideas, though good and useful, become completely worthless if one cannot get and keep a good paying job.
Someone stuck in a Mcjob or other low paying job, tries to get out by learning new skills, then get hit by the catch-22. Oops. Sergeant Shultz sees nothing.
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Even if any of this holds true, most companies will pay severance to employees who are laid off. Generally speaking, the longer the tenure, the longer the severance. In that timeframe, a person can easily be searching for employment ... and many companies are still desperate for workers, so there's really no excuse to not be employed.
Companies are not required, legally, to pay any severance. Usually severance is based on an employment contract which must specify it. The overwhelming vast majority of employment contractors don't have severance.
Since you act like the profound expert on how companies screen applicants and hire new employees, maybe you can tell me how my company has been able to place jobs for numerous new hires over the last few years ... many of whom had no previous experience, other than college and "McJobs" (as you call them). I'll tell you how: they had satisfactory interview skills, eagerness to learn, and a strong work ethic. It also helps to do research on the company where you're applying, and have a detailed (but not overly wordy) resume.
Name and location of this miracle company that hires people with no experience.
That is, if this company actually exists.
And from what you're saying, the only jobs that exist in the universe are call center jobs.
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The person who is dependable and meets standards
Without work experience, there's no way for someone to prove this.
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however, this alone isn't enough to climb the ladder.
First, one has to be allowed on the ladder. Catch-22 prevents that. Climbing the ladder can only be done if one is ON THE LADDER.
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Being a "people person",
This Means what?
a brown-noser with his/her nose up someone's backside? A lying snake who tells you what you want to hear and then does something else?
I got this sense you are bad at spotting phonies. I, on the other hand, can spot them.
Skills don't matter. Education doesn't matter. Being honest doesn't matter. Good character doesn't matter. Certifications don't matter.
But if you can kiss the right backside BOOM that is what is needed to succeed.
Then try to apply for a job for those new skills, and oops, no experience so no job.
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and having a positive attitude (something you severely lack)
This means what?
I'm supposed to always pull and Ren and Stimpy Happy Happy joy joy dance no matter what?
Toxic positivity.
In addition, you seem to say "I got mine and you're a total loser since you have the slightest amount of difficulty" - that's not a positive attitude.
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are some of the keys to getting ahead.
But none of these can get on the ladder.
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When I was in management, I would always encourage my employees to join networking groups if they had a desire to break out out of your "catch 22" and move upward in the company.
If they're your employees THEY ALREADY GOT PAST THE CATCH 22.
You keep saying that word. That word does not mean what you think it means - Inigo Montoya.
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You can keep focusing on being stuck in the "catch 22 McJob" world if you choose, but you're just spinning your wheels, and digging deeper with your blatant negativity & excuses.
You're only talking about one particular career path - then pretending the rest of the working world must therefore be a copy/paste.
Working in a call center will not get someone a job as an accountant, project manager, software developer, business analyst, or so many other jobs.
No, they say "I got mine, if you can't, you're a total loser" - this is the primary attitude on C-D.
What I or anyone else on C-D thinks of you is irrelevant. What's important is what YOU think of yourself.
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Originally Posted by bobsell
...Lottery winner claims to be a self-made man. Nothing but egotism.
I've got a family member who pretends they are a self-made millionaire. When in fact they aren't. Not even close. The wife inherited a good deal of money and while I don't begrudge anyone's good fortune it does bother me I was never told about the financial windfall. I found out about the money inadvertently from another family member.
Then try to apply for a job for those new skills, and oops, no experience so no job.
This means what?
I'm supposed to always pull and Ren and Stimpy Happy Happy joy joy dance no matter what?
Toxic positivity.
In addition, you seem to say "I got mine and you're a total loser since you have the slightest amount of difficulty" - that's not a positive attitude.
But none of these can get on the ladder.
If they're your employees THEY ALREADY GOT PAST THE CATCH 22.
You keep saying that word. That word does not mean what you think it means - Inigo Montoya.
You're only talking about one particular career path - then pretending the rest of the working world must therefore be a copy/paste.
Working in a call center will not get someone a job as an accountant, project manager, software developer, business analyst, or so many other jobs.
I think the point is they might have gotten hired but the position was entry-level. A position those without much work experience in this particular field can land. But...to get ahead in the company, to get beyond the "catch-22" or entry-level status additional steps are usually required.
People are looking for various lab assistants, Genetics techs, entry truck driver for decent wages, plumbing apprentices, etc. The link has several pages worth of HS only jobs or limited college.
Personally, I'd start my own gig and grow it. I'm not a big fan of sharing with an employer. Because generally, employers aren't very good at sharing. For the past 20+ years, I only share with my "silent business partner": the government.
When you go to college and get some summer "experience" (being an intern qualifies), all too often it's just a networking session and dipping your toe into what a job has to offer. But that's the game you need to play. Because a future employer expects you have the motivation to find that related gig while going to college. Then, you semi-inflate all of those not-so-amazing "experiences" during such a short time frame () and put it on your resume. And if that intern gig company loved you over the summer, they are going to recruit you. a.k.a. you didn't have any "experience" and you landed in a spot. a.k.a. a "non-catch-22" job. I can rattle off a few dozen examples of what I just started. That's the way it happens in thousands of landed jobs. It's not some super difficult game plan to get a job.
You have to play the same game to get into some competitive degrees. Our children both had to do the same thing. And like an intern job, you blow smoke up someone's butt later as to how this "experience" is related to your upcoming degree. Gee, more "catch-22"? lol
I suspect someone on this forum got his butt kicked when he changed careers. And his over-compassionate soul is making excuses for himself and everyone else.
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For the past 20+ years, I only share with my "silent business partner": the government. 
) and put it on your resume. And if that intern gig company loved you over the summer, they are going to recruit you. a.k.a. you didn't have any "experience" and you landed in a spot. a.k.a. a "non-catch-22" job. I can rattle off a few dozen examples of what I just started. That's the way it happens in thousands of landed jobs. It's not some super difficult game plan to get a job. 
