PennDOT projects ignore bikes and pedestrians (Highland Park: buses, design, vehicles)

[SammyKhalifa]

Originally Posted by LIRefugee

I've crossed it on foot. You get some decent views of the city you wouldn't get otherwise. That's not saying walking TO it is all that pleasant, especially on the south shore.

Yeah, I've done that a few times. Walking that part of Carson isn't exactly scenic, is it?

[I_Like_Spam]

Originally Posted by GeneW

Try to get from the Northside to The West End to see how little PennDot cars about pedestrians or bikes.

Back in the day, there used to be a pretty complex system of staircases underneath the West End Circle to get people below to West Carson as well as a pedestrian island for transit riders to transfer down there.

[ferraris]

Originally Posted by WPANative

I'm not surprised

I'm just surprised by how vast the disparity is. It sounds like 99% of projects don't even include crosswalks, assuming those qualify as a "pedestrian safety facility."

Originally Posted by Aqua Teen Carl

Hate to sound negative but: this is Pennsylvania.

Not only is archaic planning the norm and accepted, but the usual rural vs. city "why should I pay for XYZ" applies again and again. It will spawn the same discussions and create the same divide between us.

Wouldn't be surprised if some pockets are being lined to brush aside biking and pedestrian projects as well. Again, this is Pennsylvania.

The rural vs. suburban vs. urban aspect of our state definitely comes into play here. I wish more transportation funding and decisions were kept up to local government.

[ferraris]

Originally Posted by fleetiebelle

Alternately, Pocusset St in Schenley Park was just turned into a bike/pedestrian only path: That First Ride | Pittsburgh Parks Conservancy Blog

This is great. What a well done project! BikePGH really has affected a lot of change.

Originally Posted by Moby Hick

Many of the city streets don't have sidewalks here. Or they only have them one side.

"Many" is a stretch, at least compared to the suburbs. The city streets without sidewalks are usually that way because they are so narrow.

[ki0eh]

There certainly is a difference in transportation funds programming evident in PA vs., say, NY or MD.

Sidewalks are obviously a common good - unless you are in PENNDOT. The only reason they typically have curb ramps (not sidewalks between, but curb ramps) included in a street reconstruction project is they lost a court case. Then they go and plaster "no crossing" signs all over the place at the intersections they didn't design for pedestrian passage, probably without any legal authority.

Conversely a lot of TE funds in PA go into rail trails - if you are into those, PA's are the envy of the USA. But of course then you have to get in your car and drive to, say, Confluence to use it (deliberately exaggerating for effect, yes I have seen the Hot Metal Bridge and its approaches).

Integrating trails into alternative transportation still seems to be a major blind spot. Even to many municipal site plan reviewers, they'd rather argue over hundredths of a cfs deep in a stormwater study than a commonsense sidewalk tiein at an inersection. Like, they'll make a subdivision place sidewalks on the road frontage but forget the sidewalk should actually be continuous across the subdivision entry road even if behind the entry sign.

It still hasn't occurred to the Harrisburg mandarins that sidewalks and trails are cheaper than expressway lane miles and dealing with type II diabetes.

[Craziaskowboi]

Pennsylvania ranks 27th of all states in the percentage of its transportation budget dedicated to bikes and pedestrians, which is higher than the following states:


- California
- Colorado
- New Jersey
- New York
- Vermont
- Washington


So if Pennsylvania is "backwards" for not investing enough in bikes or pedestrians, then what's that say about the states I listed that are all supposedly more "enlightened"? By the way, calling Pennsylvania "backwards" is so trite and cliche.

For that matter, it's not PennDOT's responsibility to include sidewalks in residential subdivisions; that's up the the developers and the local municipal government. Talk about barking up the wrong tree.

Originally Posted by ki0eh

It still hasn't occurred to the Harrisburg mandarins that sidewalks and trails are cheaper than expressway lane miles and dealing with type II diabetes.

On that note, expressway lane miles are cheaper than rail lines, so I guess we shouldn't invest in rail lines either.

[gg]

Originally Posted by Gnutella

Pennsylvania ranks 27th of all states in the percentage of its transportation budget dedicated to bikes and pedestrians, which is higher than the following states:


- California
- Colorado
- New Jersey
- New York
- Vermont
- Washington


So if Pennsylvania is "backwards" for not investing enough in bikes or pedestrians, then what's that say about the states I listed that are all supposedly more "enlightened"? By the way, calling Pennsylvania "backwards" is so trite and cliche.

I know Colorado and Washington state have 100 times our infrastructure for cyclists and pedestrians. That being said, CO and WA might not have to spend as much anymore due to them having it in place already.

This thread is about PennDot and people are bringing up what Pittsburgh is doing with BikePGH and such. There is a difference in the state view of this and the city view. Pittsburgh is doing better, but I would say PennDot doesn't understand why anyone would ever ride a bike anywhere. I will say PennDot DID remove a sign that was in the middle of a sidewalk on the Highland Park Bridge after a complaint was filed. I was pretty excited they even listened at all. I am still in shock they moved the sign. Maybe they would listen a little? I just have so little confidence in them, but one never knows what the future holds.

[FreightTrainRunning]

PennDot puts signs totally blocking the sidewalks around here every summer when they're detouring one of the highways. Drives me crazy.

[gg]

Originally Posted by GeneW

PennDot puts signs totally blocking the sidewalks around here every summer when they're detouring one of the highways. Drives me crazy.

If you are running Windows, you can fill out a complaint. Someone filled out a complaint regarding a sign in the middle of the Highland Park Bridge sidewalk and BOOM PennDot relocated it. Of course they still plow all the snow onto the sidewalk, which includes bumper parts, glass, shock absorbers, used drug needles and whatever else on the sides of our roadways, but I digress.

[ditchdigger]

Of course they still plow all the snow onto the sidewalk,

Where would you put it?