Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Well considering your source is "Judicial Watch" I think I will take those statistics with a grain of salt considering Katiana trumped your stats with evidence from a reputable source...the CDC. Here it is again
"As of September 30, 2010, there have been 56 U.S. reports of death among females who have received Gardasil. Thirty of these reports have been confirmed and 26 remain unconfirmed due to no identifiable patient information in the report such as a name and contact information to confirm the report. Confirmed reports are those that scientists have followed up on and have verified the claim. In the 30 reports confirmed, there was no unusual pattern or clustering to the deaths that would suggest that they were caused by the vaccine."
Oh I see the game you're going to play. You're going to play, your source is not as good as another.
Nope, I don't play that game. I should have stopped playing with you when you said 30,000 deaths due to Vioxx was just an accident.
Here is a well-researched article on a bodybuilding site. I thought it was interesting. Nowhere do they say steroid use is safe or without side-effects, but rather go into it with your eyes-wide-open, and at your own risk:
As we can all see. For the past 6 or 7 years there has been an enormous media witchhunt against steroids.
No, we've seen no such thing.
A witch hunt would be if there was steroid-hysteria with no basis in fact.
That's definitley not the case.
Quote:
In professional sports there has been a ridiculous campaign against them. The DEA has been making them more of a priority and going for bigger steroid busts.
The climax of it all might have been when in one of his state of the union addresses. George W. Bush said in his speech that we much crack down on steorids and performance enhancing drugs.
What is the point of all this? Have people forgotten that steroids were legal until the 1980's?
I guess the prison industry, pharmacetical industry, and DEA just need to make some more money.
I guess the public needs to know the horribly detrimental long-term effects in addition to the short term physical enhancements.
Katina, that's not the point of this thread. Look it up if you want to know. But I know you already know, being that you are familiar with health care, so why are you even asking me?
I truly have no clue what you're talking about. Here is a description of caffeine's effect on the body:
It has many effects on the body's metabolism, including stimulating the central nervous system. This can make you more alert and give you a boost of energy.
Note it does not say "increase intelligence".
I had never heard of nootropics until you posted the term today. Upon researching, I have heard of some of these drugs. Mostly they are used for Alzheimers Disease, Parkinson's and ADD.
These drugs have a variety of human enhancement applications as well, and are marketed heavily on the internet. Nevertheless, intense marketing may not correlate with efficacy; while scientific studies support some of the claimed benefits, it is worth noting that many of the claims attributed to most nootropics have not been formally tested.
Does steroids have to kill someone to be bad? So if it leads to cardiomyopathies, infertility, cirrhosis, diabetes, adrenal insufficiency, chronic pancreatitis, Cushings syndrome, mood instability, polycythemia, and osteoporosis...that's okay?
Ever heard of quality of life?
Furthermore, when a person dies of heart failure secondary to hypertrophic cardiomyopathy, it's not going to be listed as the person dying due to anabolic steroids. We really have no idea how many deaths are attributed to chronic steroid use. If an anabolic steroid user dies of hepatoangiosarcoma (liver cancer), the CDC is not going to list that death as a result of steroids. There is a difference between steroid related deaths and death as a direct result of steroid use as in the young athletes who died of sudden cardiopulomary failure due to anabolic steroid use.
Every post of yours is filled with steroid hysteria and absolutely zero facts or medical studies backing them up. You know what the incidence is of liver cancer in steroid users? PRACTICALL NILL! There isn't a definitive correlation at all. Yes methylated steroids are hard on your liver. They can cause hepatic peliosis etc. But that does not mean steroids cause or lead to liver cancer. And many steroid users especially middle aged men don't even use oral steroids they use injectable testosterone. Come on doc you know how first pass drug metabolism works. You are being intellectually dishonest. Many bodybuilders that have died over the years it has been a result of their addiction to pain medications or recreational drugs. Case in point........Tom Prince was an IFBB pro that needed a kidney transplant. His cause of kidney failure? ABUSING ADVIL AND PAIN KILLERS! In fat NSAIDS are harder on your kidneys than steroids.
You probably can't even name ONE professional bodybuilder who's died of steroids. Lyle Alzado died of brain cancer. Are you going to tell me steroids cause brain cancer? Lyle was a closet homosexual who died of all the hallmarks of someone with AIDS> Bet you never knew that did you "doc"?
It has many effects on the body's metabolism, including stimulating the central nervous system. This can make you more alert and give you a boost of energy.
Note it does not say "increase intelligence".
I had never heard of nootropics until you posted the term today. Upon researching, I have heard of some of these drugs. Mostly they are used for Alzheimers Disease, Parkinson's and ADD.
These drugs have a variety of human enhancement applications as well, and are marketed heavily on the internet. Nevertheless, intense marketing may not correlate with efficacy; while scientific studies support some of the claimed benefits, it is worth noting that many of the claims attributed to most nootropics have not been formally tested.
Hi Katina,
I never said there was a drug to increase intelligence. I simply said people ingest chemicals to improve their cognitive function.
So for example, a person my take ginkgo biloba,L carnitine, or modafinil to increase reaction time and improve memory and this in turn will improve test scores and work productivity.
I will have you know that fighter pilots are restricted from eating certain foods (i.e., Onions) before a flight because certain foods have been shown to slow down reaction times. These same fighter pilots take "stimulants" (some legal, some not legal) to once again, improve their cognitive function and reaction time.
Edit: Katina, I do believe that playing chess regularly helps increase intelligence however.
Last edited by calicali01; 11-14-2010 at 04:37 PM..
I know plenty of Infectious Disease physicians and they don't have thousands of AIDS patients on anabolic steroids. I would love to know the source that claims thousands of AIDS patients are on anabolic steroids And by source, I'm asking for a reputable source not some sham weight lifting magazine or small weight lifting endorsed study. I do know of patients that are on them but in their cases, you weigh the risk vs reward. Yes, their conditions are so debilitating than in their cases, anabolic steroids are beneficial. But what you are talking about is completely different; you are endorsing their use in a chronic low dose format for healthy individuals which is an entirely different scenario. Your argument is weak; you are justifying their use by saying that their use in cachexic patients means it's okay to use in healthy people with no catabolic disorder. That's an asinine argument
That's because these conditions don't occur overnight. We are talking about chronic long term use. By the time an HIV person is diagnosed with AIDS, they don't live beyond 1-2 years so of course they will not suffer from the long term metabolic derangements.
And what do you think happens to that excess testosterone in your body? Your body converts that to estrogen which means you will develop gynecomastia and increased fat deposition with long term use.
We are discussing chronic low dose anabolic steroid use; we are not talking about anabolic steroid use in the short term (a matter of days). You are attempting to argue that long term low dose anabolic steroid use is not harmful. You can't just apply the broad theory of anything in small doses is okay which is what you are doing. You have to examine the drugs themselves and understand how they function in your body from a pathophysiological mechanism. Just because you've played around with steroids and the "small dose" theory makes sense to you on some intuitive scale, it doesn't mean you know the facts or are stating facts. You clearly have no idea what you are talking about and are simply playing doctor. Get educated before you decide to play with something you really know nothing about. Make an appointment with an Endocrinologist (physician specializing in hormones and metabolism) and ask about its use. An Endocrinologist is a physician who went to medical school for 4 years, did 3 years of internal medicine and a 2 year fellowship in endocrinology so it's safe to say they know more about this subject than you ever will.
Oh brother. First off lots of AIDs patients are taking steroids without the connsent fo their physician because most of the time their physician will not allow them or encourage them to take steroids. At not at the dose or level that really makes an AIDs patient reap the benefits of steroid use. Most infectious disease doctors have no clue as to the amount of steroid use and their practical use as far as building muscle is concerned. So you are with a straight face going to say that once a person is diagnosed with AIDS they don't live beyond 1-2 years? That is absolute nonsense and you know it. People are living longer with AIDS not just HIV than ever before.
And MANY guys are not prone to gynocomastia. In fact it's fairly rare among people that use moderate doses of steroids, even androgenic steroids. It's based on the individuals response. Plus that's what anti-estrogens are for. And nobody take steroids for 1-2 days. See you have absolutely no clue about how these drugs or used let alone what actual side effects most people are seeing.
Here is a well-researched article on a bodybuilding site. I thought it was interesting. Nowhere do they say steroid use is safe or without side-effects, but rather go into it with your eyes-wide-open, and at your own risk:
Ha, I know all about that first article. I know all about York PA and the doctor who wish he had kept his findings to himself.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
