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Ummm.... OK, let's (just for a moment) put aside your uber-inflammatory language and fallacious logic, your comment appears to have missed a key statement in the OP:
At best, your comment belongs on another thread. Here, let me help you out by pointing you in the right direction:
What I find amusing is that the post you are responding to was not off topic at all, as he answered the OP's question. Your post, however, is the inflammatory, off topic one.
Second, your example about Bush doesn't make sense. A state cannot legalize something the federal gov't has outlawed. The feds have every right to enforce the law that marijuana is illegal.
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Another conversation, I know, but it really isn't that simple. The states are allowed by federal law to set their own "levels" concerning different drugs through state pharmaceutical boards.
But lets take for instance, a crazy person, maybe a Jared Loughner, I believe he is absolutely insane. If an insane person kills someone, does he go to hell? Even though he doesn't really have working mental facilities? Does someone who is born in the ghetto and is taught to do bad things, and ends up accidently or even intentionally killing someone, does he go to hell? Wht about that person who is born into wealth, who has a simple life with never anything to "test" them. Do they get what amounts to a "free pass" to heaven? What about those terrorists who believe they are doing good for their "god". Do they go to heaven or hell?
If god does exist, and if heaven does exist, god would not judge people based on any absolutes. He would judge people based on the trials of their lives. And condemning people based on some absolute standards is hypocritical and wrong.
So remove religion out of the equation for a minute, ask yourself again, is homosexuality bad? If it isn't, then the people being judgemental and oppressive of such a condition(which is largely not the fault of the individual) would themselves sort of be 'evil'. If it is actually bad, then it is societies duty to minimize its "penetration" into our world.
The Bible says that once a person is made aware of the error of their ways, they are to repent. So, if someone was crazy at the time of the crime, they are still held accountable for their actions and they must repent when they realize what they have done.
Sin is sin, in God's eyes, it's just as bad to murder someone as it is to take His name in vain. So, to say that someone has not been "tested" would be false, as even the most boring and pious people are tested in some way.
Anyone who knows of God and Jesus but rejects him will go to hell if he dies or the rapture/end of days comes before he accepts God in his life. So, if a Muslim has heard the Gospel but refuses to believe it, and goes on to blow himself up in the name of his own false god, yes, he does go to hell.
Someone who dies without having heard of Jesus and the Gospel will be accepted into heaven.
All the aborted babies go straight to heaven as well, as they have not committed any sin yet, nor have they been told about the Gospel.
Your assumptions here are unfortunately all wrong. God forgives us no matter what we have done, as long as we are truly sorry in our hearts. That was the whole purpose of Jesus' sacrifice....
For those of us with strong faith, it is impossible to remove religion from the equation. God is in everything (not in the pantheistic sense), the things I have today were made possible by Him. Yes, I have free will to sin but it is up to me to make good choices when he presents them.
I hope this gives you some perspective on this debate.
The Bible says that once a person is made aware of the error of their ways, they are to repent. So, if someone was crazy at the time of the crime, they are still held accountable for their actions and they must repent when they realize what they have done.
Do you actually know any crazy people? Crazy people don't think like you and I, they are impulsive, and many times they do know right from wrong, but its like things don't properly register in their brains. Jared Loughner is a good example of how multiple people can look at the same exact thing, but interpret it many different ways. Lastly, does repenting always get you off the hook for everything?
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Sin is sin, in God's eyes, it's just as bad to murder someone as it is to take His name in vain. So, to say that someone has not been "tested" would be false, as even the most boring and pious people are tested in some way.
Look, there are plenty of people who are never really 'tested'. There are people who die young, never tested. There are people who are raised with generally better values, and in environments that never really push them into a stressful situation. They are sheltered from the world, with never a worry. Obviously they aren't going to steal, or kill, or use the lords name in vain. If you don't understand there is a difference from one persons environment to another, you are a fool. There are also genetic factors that would further "test" someone, such as genes that increase impulsivity, which tends to increase your odds of violent acts(there are 10 times more men in prison than women, why? Testosterone).
Simply put, not all people are tested equally, to give one person the 1st grade vocabulary test, and to give another person the MCAT, would hardly seem fair.
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Anyone who knows of God and Jesus but rejects him will go to hell if he dies or the rapture/end of days comes before he accepts God in his life. So, if a Muslim has heard the Gospel but refuses to believe it, and goes on to blow himself up in the name of his own false god, yes, he does go to hell.
And you believe that is remotely fair? When 99% of the people around you are not Christians, and tell you that you are going to hell if you don't believe in their god? Is that what you're telling me? And someone who just so-happens to be born into a Christian home, surrounded by other Christians, basically gets a free pass?
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Your assumptions here are unfortunately all wrong. God forgives us no matter what we have done, as long as we are truly sorry in our hearts. That was the whole purpose of Jesus' sacrifice....
I understand your dogmatic bull****, but can you really not see the imbalances and unfairness if god actually applied the moral absolutisms that you believe he does. I do believe there is a god, but I can't for an instant believe he is as unfair and inconsistent that he would have to be if he was like you say he is.
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For those of us with strong faith, it is impossible to remove religion from the equation. God is in everything (not in the pantheistic sense), the things I have today were made possible by Him. Yes, I have free will to sin but it is up to me to make good choices when he presents them.
I hope this gives you some perspective on this debate.
I understand the point-of-view of religious individuals. They believe that they are doing the right thing, and that god would punish them to if they stood by and did nothing. I do not blame you one bit for your point-of-view. But there are hundreds of religions out there, all preaching different things, and in this age of knowledge at almost everyones fingertips, it would be impossible for me to believe that god would condemn basically everyone in the world who isn't a Christian, or doesn't follow the exact Christian moral code(because they have their own).
I think religion is a force for good, but your moral absolutism is not.
I can only explain my own feelings on these issues, I don't speak for all but I think my answer is pretty representative of the conservative population. The simple fact is that gay marriage and abortion go against what God wants. I don't want gov't interfering in every realm of life, but I also do not want to pander to the viewpoints of a select few (in the case of gays) or the immoral (re: abortion). JMO
Now for my own views...keep God out of our laws, I don't want Christians interfering with my way of life.
I think it is Calvinistic . . . even if subconsciously. I think it has to do with both conventional ideas about males and females, as well as religious ideas about males and females.
Republicans tend to be old white males (if not in fact, then in disposition and heritage) and are selfish and sexist . . . it's all about men making rules and goddamn it, you better listen or they will shoot you!
Sin is sin, in God's eyes, it's just as bad to murder someone as it is to take His name in vain. So, to say that someone has not been "tested" would be false, as even the most boring and pious people are tested in some way.
What theology do you follow that tells you that there is no distinction between a mortal and a venial sin?
Most Christians don't subscribe to this even outside of the Catholic Church.
The ultimate control of a woman is to control her womb. Republicans feel they have a right to determine who is to live and who is to die. They will insist that fetus' live because they want to be in a superior position to decide such things, and on the other hand, are for capital punishment . . . they like to play "god" in that way.
Only THEY have the say of who is going to live and who is going to die and it is all predicated on power - the power of the white man to make the rules in society - to hell with gays and to hell with women. Literally. It says so in their bible.
Do you actually know any crazy people? Crazy people don't think like you and I, they are impulsive, and many times they do know right from wrong, but its like things don't properly register in their brains. Jared Loughner is a good example of how multiple people can look at the same exact thing, but interpret it many different ways. Lastly, does repenting always get you off the hook for everything?
With God, yes, it does "get you off the hook." I actually do know several people who would be considered "crazy" as in they are delusional and psychotic. At the time they are doing "wrong" things, they do not understand that what they are doing is wrong.
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Look, there are plenty of people who are never really 'tested'. There are people who die young, never tested. There are people who are raised with generally better values, and in environments that never really push them into a stressful situation. They are sheltered from the world, with never a worry. Obviously they aren't going to steal, or kill, or use the lords name in vain. If you don't understand there is a difference from one persons environment to another, you are a fool. There are also genetic factors that would further "test" someone, such as genes that increase impulsivity, which tends to increase your odds of violent acts(there are 10 times more men in prison than women, why? Testosterone).
Simply put, not all people are tested equally, to give one person the 1st grade vocabulary test, and to give another person the MCAT, would hardly seem fair.
Life is not a test like that, in God's eyes. You can't look at it like that. Nobody will have the exact same "life test" as the next guy. Period. But we all have control over how we behave, that is the simple fact. I see where you're going, and I understand what you're saying, but to God, that kind of thing matters not. Please refer to what I previously said in regard to "levels" of sin (i.e., there are none).
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And you believe that is remotely fair? When 99% of the people around you are not Christians, and tell you that you are going to hell if you don't believe in their god? Is that what you're telling me?
I don't understand what you mean here.
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And someone who just so-happens to be born into a Christian home, surrounded by other Christians, basically gets a free pass?
Someone who is born into a Christian home still has to commit their life to God, same as someone who was not born into a Christian home. They have heard of the Gospel and do not get a free pass in the manner that those who have not heard of the Gospel would. For example, I was born into a Christian home, I had very religious grandparents and when we lived in Miami, my parents took us to Catholic mass every Sunday. When we relocated, we never went to church. I went sometimes with my grandparents but that was it. As an adult, I rejected God and Christianity and had to find my way back to it. There were periods of my childhood in which I rejected God as well, and I always found my way back. There is no "free pass" to anyone, save those who have never sinned (babies who are unborn) or those who have never heard of Jesus Christ.
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I understand your dogmatic bull****, but can you really not see the imbalances and unfairness if god actually applied the moral absolutisms that you believe he does. I do believe there is a god, but I can't for an instant believe he is as unfair and inconsistent that he would have to be if he was like you say he is.
Well, it's not bullcrap, as much as you would like to think, and I do see how the world is unfair. Life is unfair b/c we are prone to sin, as humans, we have a sinning nature. The only man who never sinned was Jesus. Things go wrong b/c of others' actions. For example, those people died in AZ b/c of the actions of one person. It is not that God wanted them dead, but that the man sinned and took others' lives. That is why bad things happen to good people. And bad things happen to people who bring them on themselves as well, since again, we all have the capacity to sin and make the wrong choices.
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I understand the point-of-view of religious individuals. They believe that they are doing the right thing, and that god would punish them to if they stood by and did nothing. I do not blame you one bit for your point-of-view. But there are hundreds of religions out there, all preaching different things, and in this age of knowledge at almost everyones fingertips, it would be impossible for me to believe that god would condemn basically everyone in the world who isn't a Christian, or doesn't follow the exact Christian moral code(because they have their own).
I think religion is a force for good, but your moral absolutism is not.
Fair enough. We can agree to disagree on these items. I know Christianity is the one right and true religion. You are free to disagree, as is the next guy, but it will not change my stance. I would like to change yours, as I believe it is my Christian duty, but that is neither here nor there with this thread.
I think it is Calvinistic . . . even if subconsciously. I think it has to do with both conventional ideas about males and females, as well as religious ideas about males and females.
Republicans tend to be old white males (if not in fact, then in disposition and heritage) and are selfish and sexist . . . it's all about men making rules and goddamn it, you better listen or they will shoot you!
Why in the world would you ever think that? So I'm now an old white male with a rifle?
The use of G-D in this thread is highly offensive.
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