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I agree with everything you have said here. At my first ultrasound to confirm pregnancy, I was 6 weeks, 1 day. I missed my period but just thought I was late due to stress. I assume that's how it goes for most unplanned pregnancies (ours was planned, so I can only guess). The heartbeat was already detectable by the ultrasound machine at this point. The baby looked kind of like a snail due to how it was positioned next to the yolk sac. At my next ultrasound, 8 weeks exactly, it already looked like a human. Arms, legs, huge brain already formed, body, the heart beating strong...how anybody could argue that that is not a human body is beyond me. My next scan was at 13 weeks, it was much more obvious that the baby is indeed a baby (I don't know how else to explain it, obviously I know it is not something other than a baby, but my point is that it looks like a real little miniature baby already). We got a few perfect profile pictures and one with a little tiny hand next to the face, almost like a wave (just random movements, I know). My next scan is tomorrow at 16 weeks and we find out the gender.
Seriously, anybody who could have a late term abortion is a sicko. I can somewhat understand early abortions b/c it takes awhile to sink in that there's actually a baby in there. But yeesh, at 6 weeks the brain and heart are going and at 8 weeks, it LOOKS like a baby with a body and appendages. I would venture a guess that most abortions happen between 6 and 8 weeks (or thereabouts). Thus, if people actually realized how fast the baby develops in those first few weeks, they might not go through with the abortion, rape or no rape. I don't think rape justifies killing another human life, as rare as it may occur. The alternative is adoption if the baby is unwanted. People should have to view an ultrasound and see the heartbeat before terminating a pregnancy so they are going in with all the facts.
FWIW, you can't hear a heartbeat on an ultrasound or doppler until about 10 weeks. So the title of this thread is really not accurate, since a lot of abortions occur prior to this point.
That is indeed an alternative, but it is not the only one. Abortion is another alternative, and thank God we have that choice. Since carrying a pregnancy to full term is far riskier to a woman than having an abortion, we should let the woman decide if that is a risk she is willing to take. She should know all the facts, right?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wapasha
Does that tinfoil hat pinch?
I suppose in your world, women spontaneously become pregnant.
"Women are people not pets or property. "
Babies are people too.
Babies are indeed people too - embryos are not.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Book Lover 21
I understand your point of view, but you can't take all the risk out of life. This is like saying, "Until you can guarantee that no person will ever engage in drunk driving, destroy all automobiles." It isn't practical.
Life is all about risk, it's messy and scary and unpredictable. You can't predict whether a pregnant woman will develop an attachment to the growing child in her womb. You can't predict if that child will become a serial killer or Ghandi. You CAN arm her with all of the information needed to make an informed choice.
Do you then agree, since you want her to make an informed choice, that her risk of death is ten times greater with childbirth than with abortion? We wouldn't want to be accused of cherry-picking the information to suit our political agendas or moral compass, right?
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Originally Posted by Bill Keegan
You do understand that a fetus is considered a human life by some people, and that an abortion is therefore the killing of said human life, right? And maybe opposition to abortion is about stopping that killing more than it is about whatever silly control issues you want to pretend it's about.
You do realize that some people believe the earth is flat, right? And there are groups of folks who believe that the moon landing was a hoax? It doesn't change how the rest of us get on with our lives. As far as the law is concerned, abortion is a choice we are entitled to make. If you don't agree, then don't get an abortion. No one is forcing abortions on anyone.
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Originally Posted by malamute
Drama queen stuff. EVERY single one of those on your list can also be brought about by abortion. Abortions are not safe no matter how many lies you pro-abortionists say.
Look how many women die in abortions.
If you're really so sincerely frightened of all those conditions, you need to realize that they are risks of pregnancy - the smart thing is to get a tubal ligation and never get pregnant. To get pregnant and think abortion is completely safe is as foolish as it gets.
Your post above is possibly the most misinformed I have read in this thread. I bolded the sentence that is the most ironic - since the "lies" we "pro-abortionists" say are actually facts supported by science, and as I've stated several times throughout this thread - a woman is 10 times more likely to die from carrying a child to term/delivering than from getting an abortion.
I bolded the sentence that is the most ironic - since the "lies" we "pro-abortionists" say are actually facts supported by science, and as I've stated several times throughout this thread - a woman is 10 times more likely to die from carrying a child to term/delivering than from getting an abortion.
I have difficulty imagining this to be true, no matter how many times you've said it. Since you say this "fact" is backed by science, please provide that scientific information, or a link to it.
I have difficulty imagining this to be true, no matter how many times you've said it. Since you say this "fact" is backed by science, please provide that scientific information, or a link to it.
So you don't make a distinction for the intent of the person who presents the risk?
Why won't you answer my question? It's a simple one. You say it's ok to kill someone who represents a threat to you. I simply want to know if you think that's ok in EVERY case, or just the specific one.
I find it hilarious that you call for honesty in this debate, but first present my argument dishonestly, then, when I answer your question directly, pretend I haven't answered your question at all.
Not only do I say it's ok to kill someone who represents a threat to me, the law says so, too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Keegan
Of course the law should not prevent you from protecting yourself, with deadly force. Of course, this is not analagous to a woman getting an abortion because she believes her life is threatened by the fetus. The fetus is not a malicious being with the intent to kill the mother. Any threat to the mother by the fetus is purely accidental. And please note that I've never said that I believe a woman shouldn't be allowed to have an abortion. In fact, I very clearly stated the opposite. Where we disagree is when the fetus has become a human being. I don't know when that happens, but surely it does, and it is before the baby is actually born. My thought on the matter is somewhere near the 20-22 week mark. And if a woman has made the DECISION to allow the baby to get to that age, then it's too late to allow her to suddenly change her mind and kill it. It is MY belief that once it's a human being, no one should be allowed to kill it. I'm more than a little surprised that, with the level of scientific knowledge we have, we have not yet established a baseline date at which we know it's a human being, and therefore afforded the same protections as the rest of us.
Awww, poor baby, it doesn't mean to be putting my health and life at risk, it just is, so we should allow it to continue to do so.
Frankly, I couldn't care less at what point you think a fetus becomes a human being. Even if I completely agree with you on the exact moment a fetus becomes a human being, that doesn't negate the fact that you don't get to dictate that that's the point after which I'm no longer allowed to protect my own life over that of the human being that's threatening it.
I have difficulty imagining this to be true, no matter how many times you've said it. Since you say this "fact" is backed by science, please provide that scientific information, or a link to it.
The risk of abortion complications is minimal: Fewer than 0.3% of abortion patients experience a complication that requires hospitalization.
The risk of death associated with abortion increases with the length of pregnancy, from one death for every one million abortions at or before eight weeks to one per 29,000 at 16–20 weeks—and one per 11,000 at 21 or more weeks.
At the same time, I believe that the living, breathing, reacting being that exists at 25 weeks IS a human being, and as such deserves to be protected from ANYONE that wants to kill it, including it's mother. Now, this is mostly an acedemic and political issue, even though it fires up so many emotions, as the overwhelming majority (something like 90%, if I remember correctly) of abortions in the US are performed before the 13th week. I am troubled when the conversation comes up and I am reminded that something close to 1,000 "abortions" are performed every year when the woman is beyond the 24th week.
why is it so hard to believe that 1,000 or so pregnancy in the US involve a baby that has serious birth defects or a woman in danger of losing her life? late term is rare 1%, with specific guidelines, the list of medical reasons is long and was posted just a few pages back and quoted several times.
the anti-choicers lie that late term abortion is an everyday, get it anytime you want is ignorant BS meant to make pro choice people out to be monsters.
Location: Georgia, on the Florida line, right above Tallahassee
10,471 posts, read 15,839,921 times
Reputation: 6438
Quote:
Originally Posted by hothulamaui
why is it so hard to believe that 1,000 or so pregnancy in the US involve a baby that has serious birth defects or a woman in danger of losing her life? late term is rare 1%, with specific guidelines, the list of medical reasons is long and was posted just a few pages back and quoted several times.
the anti-choicers lie that late term abortion is an everyday, get it anytime you want is ignorant BS meant to make pro choice people out to be monsters.
They act like it's as easy as hitting a button on a Pez dispenser, too.
So you think that if a person sees another person being killed, they should do nothing about it? Because it's not their business? Really?
I expected the argument that a fetus is in fact NOT a human life. Which of course is the point. There's no clear definition of exactly when it is a human being, a person. But to say stay out of it, the person being killed isn't you so don't get involved, well that's just bizarre. Does that ever change? Should we allow the killing of a human being after it comes out of the womb too? Where do you draw the line?
seeing a "person" on the street being killed is far different than a fetus.
is a pregnancy a "human life" sure I can see a fetus as a human life. which needs to go too term to become a bouncy, hopefully healthy baby.
when the world invents a womb perhaps then we could discuss saving all these humans in waiting.
any thinking human with an ounce of compassion knows the answer to your last question. to ask if we would allow killing after a baby comes out of the womb is just wild speculation and not worth speculation.
once a pregnancy results in a baby able to live outside the womb is when it becomes a "human" with rights.
abortion in the US is not a free for all past the early stages, we do have medical guidelines in place.
They act like it's as easy as hitting a button on a Pez dispenser, too.
It's scraped out.
Scraped. With tools.Insideyou.
yikes, yes lets dismember some arms and limbs today
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