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And in return for that money you get military protection, for the US and the global trade routes that bring you the oil and cheap goods everbody in this country seems to love, the spinoffs, economic and otherwise of past and future military spinoff tehnologies (such as GPS, internet,et) a highway system, and educational system (including a large part of the financial underpinnng of one of the finest systems of higher education in the world and all of the the economic benefits that that brings to you whether you attend or not, air traffic control, police and fire protection, food inspection, zoning boards (property value protecion, especially for those in cities), flood control, disaster relief, locks and dams on the rivers (on that one you may think ?, but this is hugely expensive and vital for the transport of coal (energy), chemicals, peroleum, and many other bulk items), pollution control, disease prevention and epidemic control, the judicial and prison system, airports and harbors, assistance if you lose your job or become disabled, streetlights, regulated utility rates and practices, consulates and embassies to assist you if you run into trouble abroad
I don't like paying taxes anymore than the next person, but I certainly can't fathom it being done on the cheap. Mostof it, if done right, won't and can't be cheap. Somebody has to pay for it and that's us. Maybe taxes are too high, but pointing out that a person works three or four months to cover taxes and not listing the benefits mkes it sound much more oppressive than it is. If one provided a list of the above benefits to a person who was completely ignorant of our tax code and asked that person how log a peron would have to work to pay for such things, my guess is that a reasonable person would give an answer of two-three-four months. I think many people realize that these things should be expensve, just are just surprised that that means for them. We are massively in debt as well, in large part because the baby boomers who are now complaining didn't mind the store. Every registered voter in the country knew about the growing national debt, so the people as a whole bear more responsibility for it than either individual party does. They may not always listen to us, but we elect them. I realize that the boomers made major contributions and sacrifices in other areas, but it was not fair to pass that particular burden on, either. Today, the tendency of government to overtax should be watched with great vigilance, but we need to be realistic, and we need not vote in every pied piper who tells us we can reduce taxes and cut our way to prosperity, and realize that a just tax burden is going to be hefty, and accept that nobody likes it but it is what it is, there is no sugar-coating it. Some government expenditures DO need to be cut drasticaly while others (food inspection, immigration enforcement, air traffic control) need major spending hikes. Exceptionally low taxes, if we do well, that is for our great-grandparents generation. We need to keep tax hikes and overall taxes, as low as is reasonable, but we also face the fact that there are personal and societal costs associated with massive tax cuts that we can't afford. And no, taxation is not theft by force. You can vote, if you think you are paying too much that simply means that the democratic process hasn't gone your way yet. You weren't robbed or cheated. It's not really a bad gig, most of the world population probably would probably look at our lifestyles and be more than willing to pay what we have to pay for it. And what is that anyway, an argument against any taxation at all? After all, a little theft is still theft! Does anyone seriously entertain the idea that we can run our military, police, etc, with charity? Or what the die-hard tax cutters would be willing to pay? We are not a police state, and we should not minimize the fact that the party representing those who are complaining the most about taxes happened to be in power during much of the time that our government (and by extension, our) financial obligations were incurred (not blaming either party for the entire mess, both are highly responsible, but the Bush and Reagan administrations were not exactly paragons of financial responsibility. Ditto for Obama, but he does at least realize that the only way out is a combination of budget cuts AND tax increases, while many on the other side of the aisle either haven't realized this....anything other than cut, cut, cut is blasphemy. We have faced times much more dire than this, my grandfather was severely wounded in the Battle of the Bulge. In December of '44 i doubt he even thought about his taxes. And he was liberating people who knew what being "robbed by the government" really means. it is going to take that era's attitude of shared sacrifice to get us out of this. Many of the poor can't pay. That isn't automaticaly a black mark against them as a person, many of them do very hard jobs (nurse aide) that we, as a society, can't afford to pay high wages for. The taxes that they do pay (gasoline, sales, etc are probably all they can afford. Some might respond by aying that is their fault, they chose that life, but, realistically, if that individual chose higher paying work, that just means that somebody else would have to take their vacated position and society would be no better off in the final analysis. The rich have scene their share of the burden shamefully reduced, in many cases eliminated altogether, ad that should be rectified. The illegals already here also need to be gotten onto the tax rolls, and immigation controls need to be tightened (you knowingly hire an illegal, you go to jail, at least for a few days per illegal . You are a respected CEO and you blame HR? So? You're the captain of the ship. Look's like your weekend has been planned for you. And maybe the company has to pay what they saved by hiring an illegal to the person who blew the whistle. Sounds tough, but this is a national emergency the dire nature of which we don't clearly perceive because it is unfolding slowly. Business owners and CEOs need to be held responsibly in a very big way, in part because reliance on enforcement at the border and deportation is a laughably ineffective approach. Additioly I see American companies hiring illegals to be part of their general attitude that they are above the law (See Wall Street 2008), and it is an economic crime against an American or an immigrant who did things right. How many billions would fixing this one problem add to our tax revenues and how many of the working and ambitious poor would this lift out of poverty? Legalize the ones already here, we'll need young workers to keep Soc sec, etc solvent as the population ages (removing the tens of millions already here would be a logistical nightmare anyway, and they'd just have a beer and come back, effective enforcement needs to be centered on putting a little fear into employers. Thjose who sneak across after a certain date will be deported, after serving a week or two in jail to make the experience uncomfortable. That is the only strategy that will work. Such a mass deportation (millions of suddenly unemployed, mostly young people who alrady have contacts and know their way around here) would also further destabilize Mexico, their responsibility, I know, but definitely not in our best interest - I look for the cartel violence there to eventually spill over the border in a big way anyhow), and that is the source of most of our population growth, but institute the above actions to stop any further flow, and adjust immigration limits to reflect need. I apologize if this seems a little off topic, but I think a lot of people will come to realize that it is critical to get this resolved in order to tackle unemployment, underemployment, the federal budget, and the role of taxes.
Last edited by robertbrianbush; 04-23-2011 at 01:01 AM..
I made 30,000 dollars last year and I paid in about 3,000 in taxes. I got NONE of it back. I thought the bottom fifty percent didn't have to pay taxes?
Many corporations pay ZERO due to loopholes, doesn't that make the rich the freeloaders?
Because the Republican leadership despises people who make $30,000 or less. They see you as a leech and parasite.
My daughter made $6,000 last year and she paid taxes. But, alas, she still is a dependent. I suppose if she lived in the homeless shelter and not with me, she could have claimed the Earned Income Credit and gotten some money back.
Actually you're right but she would get back a pittance (approx $250), which is to say she'd get back some but not all of what she paid in.
I'd love to know who designed the actual EIC formula, because there are some screwy aspects to it.
For example, a childless adult working half-time at minimum wage gets the max EIC (approx $250) but bas they earn more, the EIC phases out, and by the time that person works about 30 hours a week, the EIC goes away completely.
Why someone should max out their EIC by working only half time is a mystery to me.
FYI, the EIC was originally intended for PARENTS only (gee just like Bush's expanded child tax credits) and childless adults were added sometime during the Clinton years.
While I agree that the OP is definitely NOT poor, the government-defined poverty line is astonishingly useless and even misleading.
Because the government counts only cash income in defining poverty, there are a lot of "poor" people who are not at all poor (in standard of living, at least). At the same time there are people who are struggling but considered "not poor" by government.
In reality it isn't based on 50% of income, it is about the bottom 50% of tax returns, most of those pay next to nothing in income tax (SS and Medi is another story)
A lot of "no pay" tax returns come from people who aren't typical working adults.
For example, a lot of teens have enough income that thehy file tax returns, even though they don't actually owe taxes. For example, they may have worked in the summer (and had some taxes withheld) and are filing to get back their withholding.
At the other end, there are seniors with enough income that they are required to file, although they don't actually owe any taxes because their Social Security is exempt.
In reality it isn't based on 50% of income, it is about the bottom 50% of tax returns, most of those pay next to nothing in income tax (SS and Medi is another story)
I think a more meaningful measure - instead of "all tax returns" would be "all tax returns filed by people between 18 and 65".
A substantial number of tax returns are filed by people who either have enough income to be required to file, or who worked part-time (e.g. teens) and filed only to get back their withholding.
Not totally true. The EITC gang get more back in refunds than they paid in taxes. But that is the Democrats fault, as EITC is their income redistribution scheme.
The only EITC filers who get more back than they paid in are parents with kids.
BOTH parties shameless pander to the "family values" crowd by redistributing income to parents through the tax code.
See "Bush tax cuts" and "Bush expanded child tax credit."
I think a more meaningful measure - instead of "all tax returns" would be "all tax returns filed by people between 18 and 65".
A substantial number of tax returns are filed by SENIORS who either have enough UNTAXED SOCIAL SECURITY income to be required to file, or who worked part-time (e.g. teens) and filed only to get back their withholding.
I made 30,000 dollars last year and I paid in about 3,000 in taxes. I got NONE of it back. I thought the bottom fifty percent didn't have to pay taxes?
Many corporations pay ZERO due to loopholes, doesn't that make the rich the freeloaders?
Yeah. Right. Freeloaders. That is what we all are.
I make roughly ten times what you do, so did I pay 10 times more taxes (30,000)?
Nope. I paid 45+ times more taxes ($136,000).
I'm sick of hearing what's fair.
Btw, people whining about corporations paying taxes should quickly realize that THOSE TAXES are passed onto YOU...corporations NEVER pay taxes - they stick you with the bill built right into the price.
Because the Republican leadership despises people who make $30,000 or less. They see you as a leech and parasite.
the leeches and the parasites are the government leaders, who take money from EVERYBODY -the poor and the rich. they tax goods, gasoline, your homes, schools, income, etc.
when you want to fix a problem, you have to start at the top, not at the bottom.
the government is spinning this so that people don't question government spending.
most people are smarter than that.
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