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Canada hasn't experienced the huge problems brought about by America's larger black population.
Then ignore the black population and compare the social, economic, and political standing of the indigenous populations in both countries. You would be hard pressed to find many (if any) First Nations people living in the Canadian Prairies who would be willing to trade places with their counterparts in the Great Plains. Why is that? It probably has nothing to do with the marginalization of that demographic's best interests which has left many of them living in conditions which at times, rivals those of the developing world. I guess the Band leaders must be taking the Country hostage with their outrageous demands for electricity, running water, and other basic services... As cruel as Canadian history may be with their treatment of the indigenous population, they have come twice as far as their American counterparts, and as was to be expected, that notion makes you feel uncomfortable. So keep trying to deflect the issue to the AA population, when the issue clearly lies in the mentality of those who think like you.
It's amazing how many people responded defensively to the OP's question, by telling him to move to Canada or saying that he's the one that's hung up on race. I think that open, honest discussions regarding race are sorely needed in America. But anytime racism is even mentioned, some people are quick to claim that it's only a problem for the person who brings it up, or that it's part of some "liberal agenda." Give me a break! Racism/racial issues/racial tension/whatever you want to call it is alive and well in America. Have we made great strides from where we used to be? Absolutely! But that doesn't mean that we still don't have quite a bit more progress to make. And there's nothing inherently wrong with that. We are where we are. But we need to acknowledge it and face it head on, not get all defensive and up and arms and try to pretend that everything is all rainbows and sunshine, because it's not. And getting angry with people for having the nerve to point out the obvious is helping no one.
For those who say that there are no racial problems in America or that you haven't encountered them, I can only say that if you are not part of a minority population (or not linked via a close relationship like marriage, parenting, etc.), then it's very likely that you've simply never been in a situation where racism would be something that you've even personally had to confront or deal with. Again, there's nothing wrong with the fact that you personally haven't encountered such situations. But that doesn't mean that you can automatically discount someone else's experience just because you never witnessed it or can't relate to it yourself. We all bring our own unique perspectives to the table.
My best friend (a black woman) is married to a white man. And he has told us how his views of race relations has changed since they've been together, as he had never dated outside his race before meeting her. He now has another perspective, and he is more observant in various situations and he has a better understanding of what she has had to deal with her whole life. He is now cognizant and aware of issues that never crossed his mind before, simply because there was no need for them to cross his mind because they were not a part of his life.
People really only need to read a few threads on the various CD boards to see that we still have a lot of work to do when it comes to communicating about race relations in the US. But we need to stop with the defensiveness first. For every person who claims someone is playing the "race card" (I hate that term), there is a legitimate issue about race that needs to be discussed but gets ignored for the mere fact that it makes some people uncomfortable. I hate to break it to you, but racism is not some make-believe issue dreamed up by the "liberals" to distract and divide. It's real, and it's not going away just because some folks want to turn a blind eye to it. Open, honest, and respectful dialogue is needed by all parties. And that's just the tip of the iceberg. America has a deep, ugly history with race that is centuries old. There simply is no easy fix.
If you are referring to me as saying racism doesn't exist in the US, you are mistaken. I have never said this. I have said it's inappropriate to compare the people in the US to the people in Canada by making comparisons of one's family members in each country, or by assuming the reactions of a bunch of guys at a truck stop is typical of all US citizens. Have some people never heard the saying "Shake the family tree and you're going to get some nuts"? I disagree that Canada has some sort of "kinder, gentler" racism as well. Racism is racism, and you can google "racism in Canada" and find many links.
I'm a Canadian who has travelled extensively in the USA. I also have a large extended family who are Americans. The entire subject of racism is something I have been very interested in my whole life because of the incredible differences that I observed between my American family and my Canadian family. My observation on the subject start back in the early 60's.
My American cousins were overt racists. They hated blacks and did not hesitate to say so. They had zero tolerance for blacks and they didn't like any other visable minorities either. They were predjudiced against even southern Europeans like Italians and Greeks also.
My Canadian family in comparison, were racist also, but their racism was very different. It was not overt in the least. It was a very subtle kind of racism, that to me at any rate bordered on Paternalism. It was not that they hated anyone but they thought that they were "better" than members of other races just because they were Anglo Saxons.
This kind of paternalistic racism is very easily broken down because it's really not based on hate but on a racial conceit. I found that this kind of attitude was in fact based on an ignorance and lack of actual contact with different peoples. I had rural Canadian cousins who had never even seen a black person untill they first visited Detriot when they were 16 years old.
The beginning of the seismic shift in race relations in Canada started in 1967 when Pierre Elliot Trudeau became Prime Minister. He was a leader who felt that any kind of racial disharmony has no place in a "Just Society" and he began to institute reforms that would hasten the end of such a state of affairs in this country.
To begin with he created an entire new department of the government called "The ministry of multiculturalism" and of course it's minister was now a member of the cabinet and tasked by the country with what we saw to be a very important portfolio. This federal department began to create programmes and mechanisms devoted entirely to integrating all the different hyphenated Canadians into the mainstream of Canadian life. Integrating not by erasing their cultural identity but by celebrating it and exposing all the other Canadians to it through festivals, education, immigration and federal assistance in promoting diverse culture.
This has been a mega success and the even the former "Covert racism" has been largely broken down over the last 40 years. Children are taught in school that racism is JUST NOT ACCEPTABLE in our great land. There is zero tolerance for it and the result is a whole generation of kids that just don't have any racial problems in the least.
All countries face many problems in the realm of equality of opportunities and true equality in all phases of national life. Everything from employment,housing, education,equal access to all government programmes and so on.
In Canada we have done well in these areas but we still need to do better until all Canadians are truely equal in all areas of national life.
Governments come and governments go but the legacy of PET lives on in this country.
"Towards a more just society" that was the trump card for a Canadian government that endured for 20 years from the 60's to the 80's. This legacy lives on and will never die because it has been inshrined in the new conststution this same government created for all Canadians.
From reading your posts on race in the past, it does not surprise me in the least bit that you come from a long line of racists. You are one of the most disgusting bigots on this forum.
With that out the way. Canada has not made any strides when it comes to racial equality, blacks earn less than their counterparts in the US, they are under represented in politics and executive positions in many Canadian cities and 1/3rd of all blacks live below the poverty line.
As a black man that has lived in both countries I would never return north of the border to experience what I experienced in Toronto. I will take my chances in a progressive US city any day of the week. I love how my daughter will grow up in a society with examples of black wealth and success, something she would never experience in Canada.
I made a recent visit to Canada and it basically lived up to all my expectations. The environment is clean and quiet and it has a more laid back feel than America. The people are very social and friendly and you just don't sense the tension in the air that is characteristic of life in America.
I visited a cousin of mine in what would be considered a low income area of Toronto (which is still pretty decent by the way) and I saw something that had me rethinking everything I knew about race relations from a socioeconomic standpoint. We all the know the situation in America regarding the prevalence of "white-flight" from major urban centers to the suburbs, the corresponding decay and poverty that exist within inner cities neighborhoods occupied predominantly by minorities, and the generally segregated ethnic enclaves that exist within the big cities.
Anyways, what I saw in this Toronto neighborhood was a diversity and mixing among the different ethnic groups that you'll never see anywhere in America. This particular area is known to have a large black population and it is a magnate for immigrants from the Caribbean as well as other places (I spotted quite a few Muslim women driving around the neighborhood wearing the hijab... something that I almost never see in America). Even so there is a sizable white population interspersed throughout the area. In fact my cousin's neighbors are white and I was surprised to see their kids playing with my cousin's kids and the other black kids from the area. We were having pizza outdoors and my cousin's white neighbor came over and join us and ate and chat with us.
I found it intriguing but refreshing at the same time. I watched them carefully (without making it obvious) and I saw absolutely no tension or indication that they were uncomfortable in the other's presence or with the fact that their kids were playing together in the yard. In fact I notice this several times in Canada - how comfortably whites and blacks interacted with each other. I've never seen such relaxed attitudes between whites and blacks in America.
The idea of white-flight is virtually non-existent in Canada. You'll find whites in the inner city and low income areas as much as the suburbs and high income areas. Racism is probably present there but you'll have to search hard to find it or it's very subdued UNLIKE America where it's virtually in your face everywhere you go (browse the threads here on CD and you'll see what I'm talking about). Maybe America should take a page out of Canada's book. Like Healthcare and their stable banking system, they seem to get it right time and time again. Go Canada!
only people who make it an issue are guilty and don't think cause you visited someplace what you see is how it is.
I made a recent visit to Canada and it basically lived up to all my expectations. The environment is clean and quiet and it has a more laid back feel than America. The people are very social and friendly and you just don't sense the tension in the air that is characteristic of life in America.
I visited a cousin of mine in what would be considered a low income area of Toronto (which is still pretty decent by the way) and I saw something that had me rethinking everything I knew about race relations from a socioeconomic standpoint. We all the know the situation in America regarding the prevalence of "white-flight" from major urban centers to the suburbs, the corresponding decay and poverty that exist within inner cities neighborhoods occupied predominantly by minorities, and the generally segregated ethnic enclaves that exist within the big cities.
Anyways, what I saw in this Toronto neighborhood was a diversity and mixing among the different ethnic groups that you'll never see anywhere in America. This particular area is known to have a large black population and it is a magnate for immigrants from the Caribbean as well as other places (I spotted quite a few Muslim women driving around the neighborhood wearing the hijab... something that I almost never see in America). Even so there is a sizable white population interspersed throughout the area. In fact my cousin's neighbors are white and I was surprised to see their kids playing with my cousin's kids and the other black kids from the area. We were having pizza outdoors and my cousin's white neighbor came over and join us and ate and chat with us.
I found it intriguing but refreshing at the same time. I watched them carefully (without making it obvious) and I saw absolutely no tension or indication that they were uncomfortable in the other's presence or with the fact that their kids were playing together in the yard. In fact I notice this several times in Canada - how comfortably whites and blacks interacted with each other. I've never seen such relaxed attitudes between whites and blacks in America.
The idea of white-flight is virtually non-existent in Canada. You'll find whites in the inner city and low income areas as much as the suburbs and high income areas. Racism is probably present there but you'll have to search hard to find it or it's very subdued UNLIKE America where it's virtually in your face everywhere you go (browse the threads here on CD and you'll see what I'm talking about). Maybe America should take a page out of Canada's book. Like Healthcare and their stable banking system, they seem to get it right time and time again. Go Canada!
It's like that where I am (Oakland California). The kids of my white, tongan and black next door neighbors play together every day and their families are always hanging out. It's the only city I've ever lived in or been to that I've seen seamless integration to that extent across all socio-economic levels. Even in the worst areas of East Oakland I regularly see groups of kids who look like they were staged for a college photoshoot; I literally walked by four separate groups of white, black, asian and latino teens in what is without question one of the worst neighborhoods in the city. You can see the same up in the wealthy hills as well and certainly in downtown. I've never seen that anywhere else in the Bay or the US for that matter.
From reading your posts on race in the past, it does not surprise me in the least bit that you come from a long line of racists. You are one of the most disgusting bigots on this forum.
AS far as me being a bigot, I guess you would just have to ask my Half black grandchildren, my half Mexican grandchildren and My half Jewish grand daughter if that is true. I brought my kids up without one single shred of prejudice of any kind and it really shows in their choice of marriage partners. I'm really thinking that you must have me mixed up with someone else because I'm a lot of things but racist I'm not for absolute sure.
I made a recent visit to Canada and it basically lived up to all my expectations. The environment is clean and quiet and it has a more laid back feel than America. The people are very social and friendly and you just don't sense the tension in the air that is characteristic of life in America.
I visited a cousin of mine in what would be considered a low income area of Toronto (which is still pretty decent by the way) and I saw something that had me rethinking everything I knew about race relations from a socioeconomic standpoint. We all the know the situation in America regarding the prevalence of "white-flight" from major urban centers to the suburbs, the corresponding decay and poverty that exist within inner cities neighborhoods occupied predominantly by minorities, and the generally segregated ethnic enclaves that exist within the big cities.
Anyways, what I saw in this Toronto neighborhood was a diversity and mixing among the different ethnic groups that you'll never see anywhere in America. This particular area is known to have a large black population and it is a magnate for immigrants from the Caribbean as well as other places (I spotted quite a few Muslim women driving around the neighborhood wearing the hijab... something that I almost never see in America). Even so there is a sizable white population interspersed throughout the area. In fact my cousin's neighbors are white and I was surprised to see their kids playing with my cousin's kids and the other black kids from the area. We were having pizza outdoors and my cousin's white neighbor came over and join us and ate and chat with us.
I found it intriguing but refreshing at the same time. I watched them carefully (without making it obvious) and I saw absolutely no tension or indication that they were uncomfortable in the other's presence or with the fact that their kids were playing together in the yard. In fact I notice this several times in Canada - how comfortably whites and blacks interacted with each other. I've never seen such relaxed attitudes between whites and blacks in America.
The idea of white-flight is virtually non-existent in Canada. You'll find whites in the inner city and low income areas as much as the suburbs and high income areas. Racism is probably present there but you'll have to search hard to find it or it's very subdued UNLIKE America where it's virtually in your face everywhere you go (browse the threads here on CD and you'll see what I'm talking about). Maybe America should take a page out of Canada's book. Like Healthcare and their stable banking system, they seem to get it right time and time again. Go Canada!
The reason, is beacause most of the non whites that you saw in Canada are Immigrant that started coming to Canada since in 1970, that is why you have few racial tension.The only racial tension you have in Canada is between Native and Whites. Also, most blacks that are in U.S has been there for a long time since late 1600.
The American black population, standing at more or less 12% of the population, is mostly descended from slaves whose ancestors later faced Jim Crow and other injustives. No society would heal itself instantaneously of such history. Not a defense. Just a thought.
So, if Canada, or any other country, be it Sweden, Italy, China, or wherever, had 12% of its population descended from just such a group, there is no way in hell there would not be tension. Its impossible. As mentioned, Canada already does have tensions particular to Canada.
The Europeans brought slaves to the New World, in particular places like Brazil, Venezuela, Haiti, Jamaica, Barbados, Puerto Rico, the Bahama, and yes, what was to become the southern USA. See a pattern here? Warm weather? Labor intensive plantations?
What was to become the northern USA and Canada did not see much in the way of slavery as those factors were absent. So its not a question of the Canadian gene pool possessing some kind of morality absent in their cousins to the south. They never had the institution and thus need not deal with its aftermath now. They are lucky.
Its pretty easy to sneer, tut-tut, and proclaim moral superiority when the subject of your morality barely registers demographically.
I think the ethno-religious tensions in Northern Ireland, Belgium, and Spain are fine examples of stupidity. Then again, I do not live there.
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As cruel as Canadian history may be with their treatment of the indigenous population, they have come twice as far as their American counterparts, and as was to be expected, that notion makes you feel uncomfortable. So keep trying to deflect the issue to the AA population, when the issue clearly lies in the mentality of those who think like you.
