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Lets get the opinions of educators as to the reasons for why passing rates are where they are. The rest of us who are not in the profession, or studying it, have no real ideas of our own as to the reasons for the state of education being where it is. So to avoid sounding stupid and closed minded, we ought to keep our opinions to a minimum.
Do you honestly believe that only 1/3 of WI students are not intellectually impaired?
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I do a fair amount of reading on the subject and am married to an educator. Does this qualify me to assess education? Not really. But it does make me believe that putting all the blame on the teacher for the decline in American education is short sighted at best.
Again, the majority of students are not intellectually impaired. Many more should be able to meet bare-minimum grade-level proficiency standards. They do not.
Here's what some former educators have to say about the problems they've seen...
Foreword (http://www.waragainstexcellence.com/foreword.html - broken link) Angry Parents, Failing Schools
A prime example of one of the problems...
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University of Florida [Ed School] Professor Paul George writes, "Schools are not about taking each child as far as he or she can go. They’re about redistributing the wealth of the future."
The right are hilarious in this thread with all the lies they believe
The teachers in that state who have masters and grad school degrees make on average about 25k a year to start and the veteran teachers around 47K which is just national average wages. Those greedy union thugs
Please provide data showing an increase in student performance once a teacher gets a master's degree.
I think a Masters in education is one of the best scams going.
Let's say a teacher in 5th grade math has students averaging B's.
This teacher gets a Master's and an automatic raise, thank you NEA & the union, because of acquiring the Master's degree.
Next year the students, same school same demographics, averages are still a B.
Does this teacher deserve the raise? A Master's is supposed to make them better teachers. They have more skills, better skills. They have been taught advance techniques, etc. He/she has shown no improvement in the outcome.
This is one instance where the taxpayers are getting ripped off. If an improvement in "teaching" can be verified, raises are OK,. if not, the teacher does not get one.
This is costing states way too much money with very little improvement.
Last edited by Quick Enough; 06-27-2011 at 03:24 PM..
I bet it's worse than you are willing to admit. What I have witnessed working for the state of NJ is that most of these state workers are borderline retarded. They have mental issues and wouldn't last a week in private sector, that's why they work here. It's the patients running the asylum here. Nothing, I mean NOTHING that gets passed down to me is EVER right! I ALWAYS have to correct mistakes and fix someone else's F up. If I'm not fixing other people's mistakes, I'm doing the job multiple times because the people in charge are just dummies that refuse to learn. Maybe Cali.is different, but I doubt it.
I'm sure it is different from Department to Department and State to State. To get hired in my department (Audits and Investigations) you need a minimum of a Bachelor of Science, Business Administration - Accounting to get an interview. Of course, people with business degrees and idiots are not mutually exclusive.
Speaking as someone who actually LIVES in Wisconsin.....if you actually believe that those who are protesting are "outsiders" I would tell you to wait and see what happens when the time comes when we can actually re-call the hated Walker. I have never seen my mild-mannered fellow Wisconsinites hate anyone as much as they hate Walker.
Please provide data showing an increase in student performance once a teacher gets a master's degree.
I think a Masters in education is one of the best scams going.
Let's say a teacher in 5th grade math has students averaging B's.
This teacher gets a Master's and an automatic raise, thank you NEA & the union, because of acquiring the Master's degree.
Next year the students, same school same demographics, averages are still a B.
Does this teacher deserve the raise? A Master's is supposed to make them better teachers. They have more skills, better skills. They have been taught advance techniques, etc. He/she has shown no improvement in the outcome.
This is one instance where the taxpayers are getting ripped off. If an improvement in "teaching" can be verified, raises are OK,. if not, the teacher does not get one.
This costing states way too much money with very little to improvements.
Yes a Masters does not directly translate into being a better teacher. Just like passing the CPA exams does not make one a tax expert. But let's not oversimplify. It is estimated, in the aftermath of Leave no Child Behind, that testing has become something like 30% of a teacher's daily routine. If this is true, that's time away from teaching. And are the teacher's getting much help for this addtional duty? From what I understand...No! Is the administration's expectation of the teacher's different? No! They are expected to teach at the same level or higher. All this in the face of budget cuts / less resources, increased legal issues and a growing student population, including an increase in ESL (English as a Second Language) students.
There are many challenges in our education systems. The union activity is just one easily identified, cost related one. To think of it as the cause in educational decline, or its dissolution the solution for a municipalities fiscal woes is short sighted.
Lastly, there is constant talk of paying teachers based on student performance. While that might make sense theoretically, implementation is problematic at best...due to the many variables that need to be considered.
Speaking as someone who actually LIVES in Wisconsin.....if you actually believe that those who are protesting are "outsiders" I would tell you to wait and see what happens when the time comes when we can actually re-call the hated Walker. I have never seen my mild-mannered fellow Wisconsinites hate anyone as much as they hate Walker.
Then you haven't talked to the majority of the WI taxpayers. WI taxpayers, myself included, wholeheartedly support Walker. Didn't the Prosser victory against heavy union-led opposition clue you in?
It's only the the public employee union pukes that are hissing and snarling. They're vastly outnumbered by those of us who are sick of paying through the nose for their greed.
Then you haven't talked to the majority of the WI taxpayers. WI taxpayers, myself included, wholeheartedly support Walker. Didn't the Prosser victory against heavy union-led opposition clue you in?
That was huge for an unknown candidate, that was down 33% in the primaries to just barely lose by .5% to a well known incumbent with massive financial backing (koch bros. included) is quite phenomenal. Not to mention 6 of the 8 republican senators are up for recall and got at least 125% of the signatures easily for those senators, the republicans were only able to barely gather enough votes to get only 3 democrats up for recall. The right were so desperate they had to bribe people with shots at bars for signatures and putting dead people on the list.
Not to mention the people of Wisconsin and the country are fired up like nothing i've ever seen since maybe viet nam. There are still large protests going on to this day, the tea party support is laughable at best, if any. It's clear to see the people of Wisconsin and the country are standing strong to Walker and the far right's fascist attack on liberty and their america destroying agenda.
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Originally Posted by InformedConsent
It's only the the public employee union pukes that are hissing and snarling. They're vastly outnumbered by those of us who are sick of paying through the nose for their greed.
I don't know where you are getting that from. Every event i've seen put on is by average people completely at the grass roots level, not bussed in people like the Koch's have to send in for the right.
The far right is vastly outnumbered by those that are sick of paying though the nose and having their rights destroyed in the name of right wing corporate greed
Oh, the irony and hypocrisy...With the way conservatives continue to whine about Obama to the point of creating the teabagger "movement".
Obama was a nobody in Chicago when the Tea Party was created, failure seems to be a common theme for the left in this thread.
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