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Last year GE paid no taxes on their 5 billion in profits. They also got billions in tax credits. What does that have to do with having middle and lower income customers?
You can thank Obama for giving GE a $3.2B tax credit in the stimulus bill.
Execelllente! Unfortunately good one billionaire cannot balance out the bushes, cheneys, clintons ect
That is just a myopic look.....
There are plent of others....and for your information, Bush, Cheny etc. are not responsible for most of the good/bad things you percieve....we have a congress that have to pass laws first..so lets make sure we put any blame or give any credit to everyone involved....
Let's not argue in absolutes and recognize that the world has many shades of gray. No one is proposing some Communist equality. Some inequality is perfectly normal and healthy in a capitalist economy; but too much can be highly detrimental, both socially and economically.
Truthfully, how do you think money is circulated? The poor and middle class SPEND more then the rich on a variety of items that nine times out of ten that they don't need. A perfect example is Air Jordan tennis shoes
And so what, what does that have to do with teh price of beans....it is simple -
use a service, means paying for it
doesn't mean leaching off others...
difficulty in paying has nothing to do with bills owed
They are also responsible for the deployment of American men and women to foriegn lands in order to destablize governments and finanace covert wars overseas. They are aslo responsible providing more jobs overseas to maximize their profits while avoiding their fair share of taxes. They are partially responsible for the fragmentation of this country through the finanicing of partial truths and down right lies through the media in order to promote their own agendas.
businesses exist to make profits. liberals, unions, and taxes sent those jobs overseas. as for the rest of your little diatribe, it serves no purpose. you're ranting to back up your weird little "idea" that everybody who makes more money than you "lies" and is some sort of illuminati is ridiculous. IF you lived in a world of reality, it's something sane people call "competition."
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As far as your uninformed and apparent racist remarks regarding the Bronx and compton, which more then likely are places that you have never been. There are, believe it or not people in those areas that are doing well both financially and morally and don't make stupid assinine assumptions about something that they know very little about.
i never said that people didn't do well in those neighborhoods. there are people who graduated high school in those neighborhoods, which is good. but i have to ask why my going to the bronx or compton (which i've been to both) does anything to change the fact that they have low graduation rates, high teen pregnancy rates, high murder rates, etc? because it doesn't. that's easily provided for us all through basic google searches.
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Come to think of it, for someone who apparently have a very small hold of American history. Let me enlighten you on one thing, YOUR ancestors are the same people who were the first "baby daddies" in this country when they decided to rape the slaves brought over from Africa and never took responsibility for them. As far as the child labor they experienced, did'nt that also come from their more affluent brethren, getting as much as they could from the populace as they could?
in america and in the 1830 us census, there were almost 4,000 BLACK slave owners AND there were WHITE slaves.
i fail to see why you bring up this idea that my ancestors were evil "baby daddies" of the ruling class anyway... because very likely some of my irish ancestors were slaves and because it does nothing to disprove the fact that my ancestors who immigrated from ireland, germany, france, etc were paid crap wages, without welfare, and worked through child labor and flourished within the generation. as for your statement regarding the child labor, that's not the point and i don't support it. the point is that my ancestors had 100 times more hardship than these people living in compton and the bronx currently do and look how my ancestors came up, LITERALLY WITHIN THE GENERATION.
[quote=pghquest;19824200]The median income of ALL americans climbed due to Reagan policies
Interesting, because I seen to begining of the crack epidemic which in turn lead to high incarcerations which lead to more private prisons being built which lead to more industries created thus many more millionaires. In otherwords there were just as many people falling through the crack as there were those who were making them. In short which segment of america climbed during the reagan era? Everyone did not
I was homeless 15 years ago, dont tell me it cant be done.. The poor are poor because they are too busy buying cars and spending their money rather than buying things that bring in income.
It would help if EVERYONE could be as fortunate, understand what you did was not necessarily the norm but the exception. Youproably did not have a jail record, addiction probelm, suffered through racism, or sexism either. The Reagan years was a good time to be a semi-educated white male
Actually that was the 90's,
My mistake
BINGO.. Government does NOT create wealth! They became wealthy because government stood back and allowed people to take advantage of the opportunities in america, and didnt hinder business. Governments STOP expansion, they dont create it.
War is a great opportunity to become wealth(ier) just ask Mr Cheney
We already know you think the poor/middle class should sacrafice by giving up some benefits to social programs such as social security, medicare, medicaid, pell grants, heating assistance, housing assistance, etc.
In what ways should the rich and corporate america contribute?
They shouldn't.
You need to reign in your "I'm special and I want everyone to fund my excessively extravagant life-style except me" nonsense.
I'm not a Republican, but I am an ultra-conservative and I wonder why you automatically assume that budget cuts must target social programs.
There are many other things that can be cut from the budget like Frau Obama's Reich's Ministry of Dictating to Public Schools What Food Shall Be Served.
The local school boards already over-see school nutrition, and then there is a 2nd Layer of Glorious Bureaucracy in the State school boards that also over-see nutrition, and then many States have a 3rd Layer of Glorious Bureaucracy that over-see school lunch nutrition.
Why do you need a 3rd/4th Layer of Glorious Bureaucracy at the federal level at taxpayer expense?
And why should housing programs not be cut?
Demonsrate to me the logic and reason why a single mother should have her own home/apartment funded at tax-payer expense?
Why can't she share living accommodations with another single mother?
They can help each other with child-care, which would reduce government expenditures on unnecessary child-care programs, no?
Seriously, a single mother, who isn't even working, why should she not share living accommodations with another single mother who isn't' working?
In the history of Earth more than a TRILLION people on this Planet have shared or are sharing living accommodations, so what makes her so special in the freaking universe that she should get her own home/apartment at taxpayer expense?
And why not cut Pell Grants?
Given the sad state of your country, there is no way in Hell there are that many intelligent university qualified students out there.
Someone is lying.
And please explain the logic and rationale in justifying giving SSI/SSDI to alcoholics and drug addicts to fund their addiction? Also explain why they should not be required to be actively involved and participating in rehabilitation programs.
Also, please explain the logic and rationale in justifying giving SSI/SSDI to those with mental illness who are not actively in treatment programs?
And you can explain why I should fund your life-style.
You pay $80/month for cable/satellite, plus $60/month for cell-phone and another $60/month for high speed internet access.
Let's not argue in absolutes and recognize that the world has many shades of gray. No one is proposing some Communist equality. Some inequality is perfectly normal and healthy in a capitalist economy; but too much can be highly detrimental, both socially and economically.
Let me know when we reach "too much" because from where I'm standing, the money still circulates, people still get paid, people are buying houses, everything isnt owned by the very few, despite liberal claims..
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Originally Posted by ambient
And that gap hasn't grown in the last few decades...it has skyrocketed. It's historically seen, by the way, in the late stages of every failing empire.
Thats complete and total bull crap. The richest people that ever lived in the world were americans, and many of them lived 100 years ago
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Originally Posted by ambient
The salient point is that the rich are not just richer than the poor - which is normal and fine - but that their relative rate of wealth accumulation has increased dramatically.
It has not John D Rockefellers, and Andrew Carnegies net worth was 5 times the size of Buffet or Gates net worth combined. By your standards, our "empire" isnt around today, but I beg to differ. This waa waa waa, rich people are rich, lets take it from them, is getting old.
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Originally Posted by ambient
If your argument is that the bottom 20/30/whatever % has been largely composed of welfare queens since 1970, then...ok, let's assume that is so. But the whole point is that the bottom has to increasingly rely on the rich (via government) to live.
THATS THEIR CHOICE.. The fact that the bottom decide to rely upon Social Security and other welfare programs, (yes SS is welfare), is not the fault of the rich who afford society lots of opportunities for jobs and to work, and save. The fact that so many americans CHOOSE to rely upon government for their livelyhood is the fault of those who make poor choices.
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Originally Posted by ambient
That's the problem!
WRONG.. The problem is that when government, and liberals, continue to say that its the responsibility of government to take care of those on the bottom of society, and the standards of the bottom rise, then its not the tops fault that so many decide to settle for bottom. Are you seriously going to sit here and tell me that over the last 20 years, the amount of support given to the bottom hasnt changed? I remember growing up and after my father died, my mother received welfare.. Back then it consisted of a block of cheese, a jar of peanut butter, and powered milk. Since this time we now have healthcare, housing, electric and gas assistance, payment for mortgages, payment for daycare services, weatherization programs which include new windows, furnaces, hot water tanks, and I know of someone who actually got new tires from "welfare". Are you seriously going to tell me that the government handing all of this stuff to people, doesnt perpetuate poverty?
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Originally Posted by ambient
And I agree that policies that further subjugate and enslave the lower 50% to the top 3% are bad. I want real income opportunities for those people. They used to be there...more than today.
Then stop demanding liberal policies which are so destructive to the middle class americans.. We keep hearing non stop that cutting money to the poor will cause them to starve, but the facts are that everytime its been done, the economy increases, incomes rise, jobs get created, and everytime we increase this support we get the opposite effects.
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Originally Posted by ambient
Outsourcing is primarily a matter of basic capitalist economics; if an Indian can do the job for 30% of cost, then that's where the job will go. I agree that Democrats are guilty of doing nothing and probably making it worse. But guess what? So are Republicans. They all largely stood by and did nothing. And it's not just a matter of marginal tax rates when the compelling economics are multiple orders of magnitude in difference.
The ONLY thing government can do is adjust tax rates to compel job growth. THATS IT.. So while Democrats create programs to increase taxes, thereby pushing jobs overseas, Republican plans are to lower taxes, bringing them back home. Yes, after taxes are lowered, there is a period of time in waiting for jobs to return. Corporations spend tens of millions to move jobs offshore, so it does take time for the jobs to return, and that cant happen until government makes it beneficial to corporations to do so.. Hint, raising taxes and villianizing the rich, isnt the way to get more jobs here. Hell, the american reunification tax is one of the highest in the world. Its no wonder money made overseas stays overseas.
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Originally Posted by ambient
I'm not saying it is their fault. They are taking advantage of new technology which makes automation and outsourcing economically feasible. I'm not saying it's anyone's fault - I'm just saying that this extreme and growing disparity in income is a symptom of a serious problem. It would be good if we could address it structurally without more rich/poor wealth transfers. But it seems that both Republicans and Democrats are busy arguing in terms of an old paradigm that isn't going to work anymore. It's talking past one another, a bit like we just did. We're actually not quite as far apart as it might have initially seemed.
But it is someones fault. If policies are directly to blame for the laying off of thousands upon thousands of employees, then those policies are directly to blame.
We live in a world wide economy, and this tax and soak the rich isnt working. By your own admission our country is falling, but have you looked at other nations who have gone the opposite route? Hong Kong, China, all moving in the opposite direction, so its no surprise thats where the jobs are going.
Last edited by pghquest; 06-30-2011 at 02:01 PM..
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