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Old 08-29-2011, 08:11 PM
 
3,484 posts, read 2,871,327 times
Reputation: 2354

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We are entitled to a health care system that isn't all about lining the pockets of insurance companies or paying for the health care of Mexicans who have snuck over the border and refuse to go home. We are entitled to a health care system that isn't ridiculously wasteful or incredibly expensive or largely useless. We are entitled to health care costs that don't rise every year while sending millions of Americans into bankruptcy.

Other countries manage this. Why can't we?
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Old 08-29-2011, 08:13 PM
 
Location: Sierra Vista, AZ
17,531 posts, read 24,691,987 times
Reputation: 9980
Quote:
Originally Posted by mlassoff View Post
Which do you believe and why:

A) Every American citizen is Entitled to the Best Healthcare they can Afford

or

B) For American citizens, the quality of health care should not be predicated on their ability to pay. In other words, poor citizens deserve the same quality of health care as wealthy citizens.
B) for me.
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Old 08-29-2011, 08:53 PM
 
Location: New London County, CT
8,949 posts, read 12,133,952 times
Reputation: 5145
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nomander View Post
A burden implies carrying the load of others, how can one support liberty and justify imposing a burden on another against their will? If it is against their will, then they retain no freedom of choice in the issue. So you do not support individual liberty, you support a conditional liberty.
Everyone I have ever met who uses the word "liberty" when they mean freedom has whack-a-doodle ideas.

How do you propose the country function without taxes, Mr. Liberty?
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Old 08-29-2011, 10:17 PM
 
Location: ATX-HOU
10,216 posts, read 8,116,164 times
Reputation: 2037
Quote:
Originally Posted by mlassoff View Post
How do you propose the country function without taxes, Mr. Liberty?
Just let the private companies run the country I suppose...
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Old 08-30-2011, 01:40 AM
 
Location: Maryland about 20 miles NW of DC
6,104 posts, read 5,988,983 times
Reputation: 2479
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank DeForrest View Post
Forcing the cost of your healthcare on others is immoral.

Should we have to pick up the tab to fix your car and maintain your home as well?


I would be very happy to have you as a neighbor, my junk car with the fading paint is sitting up on blocks in the driveway, the paint is peeling off my house and the yard likes like a Ozark hallar. I haven't paid my trash bill but what is a backyard for anyways and what are a few roaches and other critters between friends. Now my septic tank is overflowing and thats why I dug a little ditch down to the curb and the nearby storm drain.

Look on the bright side maybe they will cut your next assessment and your property taxes.
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Old 08-30-2011, 03:51 AM
 
Location: Prepperland
19,021 posts, read 14,196,312 times
Reputation: 16745
Since government criminalized the unlicensed trade in health care, there's no "right" to healthcare. You have to buy permission slips from licensed people to buy medicine from other licensed people who buy their supplies from licensed sources, and so on. And you are surprised at the HIGHER cost?
And anything the government meddles with, generally has bad repercussions, so the obvious solution is to get government entirely out of the way.
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Old 08-30-2011, 04:13 AM
 
499 posts, read 405,116 times
Reputation: 87
B

I believe there should be a standard of care available to all. Then, if you wish to go private you can do so.
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Old 08-30-2011, 06:44 AM
 
22,923 posts, read 15,483,261 times
Reputation: 16962
Quote:
Originally Posted by mlassoff View Post
Everyone I have ever met who uses the word "liberty" when they mean freedom has whack-a-doodle ideas.

How do you propose the country function without taxes, Mr. Liberty?
He probably also enjoys paying for vehicle licensing and insurance, household property taxes, fishing licenses, hunting licenses, parking meters. He , therefore, doesn't own a car or doesn't use the those highways as they're funded from taxation so he marches along the shoulders. Refuses to buy foods or medicines that have been inspected and certified by the FDA or because they've got those dreaded state sales taxes added on. Won't fly due to the FAA being tax funded ......!

Yep that Liberty thingy sure is expensive.
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Old 08-30-2011, 07:01 AM
 
Location: Londonderry, NH
41,479 posts, read 59,768,722 times
Reputation: 24863
IMHO citizens are far more entitled to the health care they need than investors are to a monopoly profit or executives are to bonuses for off shoring companies. The former are citizens in need and the latter are the top of America's traditional criminal class.

WE could have the best and most accessible universal health care system in the world if we were to eliminate any private sector involvement. That might require paying Doctors more than Senators but would cost far less than paying insurance company executives millions and the owners’ billions.

Universal health Care IS affordable if we stop wasting money on the insurance companies, the investors and the executives.
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Old 08-30-2011, 07:19 AM
 
5,938 posts, read 4,697,662 times
Reputation: 4631
I'd go with B in concept. With the caveat that it scrapped insurance companies entirely. Maintain reasonable profits for the doctors. Keep the skilled nurses, nurse practitioners, and other workers that do the "real work." Cut out as much of the administrative end of it as possible.

I don't want to make this another Obamacare thread, but I'll just say that while I don't necessarily want universal health care and I don't think the government would do the best job if it was a single-payer system, the version of universal health care that was proposed and passed is half-assed.

If the dollar amount out of my paycheck for healthcare did not change and everyone had reasonable healthcare, I'd go for it. For that happen, my taxes would go up but my healthcare costs would drop (in theory, that's how it should work). We are already "over-entitled" in this country, but healthcare for all is good if done right.

If we aren't doing it right, stick with option A until they find a way to do it right.
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