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My wife and I thought we'd have to do infertility treatments when we had our kids. We drew the line at that because we didn't want to be responsible for embryos that died, or for embryos that were destroyed when we got pregnant and didn't want any more.
I think you'd be whistling a different tune if your attempts to have children without infertility treatments had continued to be thwarted. It is always easy to stand by your principles when life works out your way. Much harder when you are actually dealing with heartbreak, like so many infertile couples are, every day.
When they attempt to implant those embryos and those embryos fail to impant, who gets charged with the multiple homicides? I mean, look....they just killed a lot of people. I'd say put the mom in jail for life. After all, they were OK before they met her, right? Once inside, they didn't stand a chance.
Maybe just manslaughter. See how dumb this line of thought sounds?
If you're murdering people with abortion, then you're murdering people with fertility clinics. Or at least playing dice with God.
You're way behind, kiddo. There is a massive movement underway to ban or severely restrict IVF by only allowing the creation of one embryo and only allowing transfer of one embryo. (Btw, "implant" is a biological term whereas "transfer" is the medical procedure by which an embryo is place in the uterus. Implantation will either occur or it will not, but one does not "implant an embryo." Sadly most journalists are also ignorant of the correct terminology.)
The anti-IVF activists are terribly ignorant of reproductive technology and don't understand that not all eggs or embryos are viable and have no ability to make a baby. Success is dependent upon overshooting to some extent. Making one embryo at a time and transferring one embryo at a time will often lead to repeated failure. The number of embryos to transfer in any given IVF cycle, in any given woman, requires medical expertise and the ability to judge a number of factors, number one being the quality of the embryos themselves, as well as the quality of the uterine environment as measured by certain criteria.
Location: Georgia, on the Florida line, right above Tallahassee
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chattypatty
You're way behind, kiddo. There is a massive movement underway to ban or severely restrict IVF by only allowing the creation of one embryo and only allowing transfer of one embryo. (Btw, "implant" is a biological term whereas "transfer" is the medical procedure by which an embryo is place in the uterus. Implantation will either occur or it will not, but one does not "implant an embryo." Sadly most journalists are also ignorant of the correct terminology.)
The anti-IVF activists are terribly ignorant of reproductive technology and don't understand that not all eggs or embryos are viable and have no ability to make a baby. Success is dependent upon overshooting to some extent. Making one embryo at a time and transferring one embryo at a time will often lead to repeated failure. The number of embryos to transfer in any given IVF cycle, in any given woman, requires medical expertise and the ability to judge a number of factors, number one being the quality of the embryos themselves, as well as the quality of the uterine environment as measured by certain criteria.
IVF and disposal of embryo's is a very grey area for those that consider themselves absolutely pro-life. Some vehemently oppose it, and some feel it is up to the party involved to determine their moral stand when seeking infertility treatment. I do think guidelines are important (think octomom), but limiting it to one implantable embryo is not going to statistically result in many successes.
When they attempt to implant those embryos and those embryos fail to impant, who gets charged with the multiple homicides? I mean, look....they just killed a lot of people. I'd say put the mom in jail for life. After all, they were OK before they met her, right? Once inside, they didn't stand a chance.
Maybe just manslaughter. See how dumb this line of thought sounds?
If you're murdering people with abortion, then you're murdering people with fertility clinics. Or at least playing dice with God.
Interesting thread, lots of interesting posts. A co-worker of mine, very pro-life, very Fundie Christian, was struggling with infertility. She and her husband were about ready to start adoption proceedings. She did do IVF. The doc told her if she/DH wouldn't agree to a "selective reduction" he would only mplant two embryos. They only created five. Two died early on. The best two were selected and she had a boy and a girl. She had the last one frozen and implanted later, but it didn't take.
Apparently in Europe, they're having success with only implanting one embryo, and obviously you don't need to make 20.
This whole debate is really stupid, and I don't know what logic you are trying to say conservatives don't have.
Fertility clinics don't intend to destroy life. The people who go to fertility clinics don't intend to destroy life. Life just doesn't always take hold. If we look at natural pregnancies, I know a large number of pregnancies already fail. And that's only the ones people know about. No one believes a failed pregnancy is murder, because it wasn't intentional. A miscarriage isn't murder.
Lets pretend I am driving down the road and a motorcyclist on the other side of the road blows a tire, loses control of the motorcycle, then ends up sliding under the wheel of my car. As a result, I run him over and he dies. Am I a murderer? No, because I didn't intend to kill him. Of course you could say that "I should have known that 40,000 people a year die in automobile accidents." But that is ridiculous, and I know I'm not going to hell because of an accident.
Fertility clinics don't intend to destroy life. The people who go to fertility clinics don't intend to destroy life. Life just doesn't always take hold. If we look at natural pregnancies, I know a large number of pregnancies already fail. And that's only the ones people know about. No one believes a failed pregnancy is murder, because it wasn't intentional. A miscarriage isn't murder.
Location: Georgia, on the Florida line, right above Tallahassee
10,471 posts, read 15,827,481 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Redshadowz
This whole debate is really stupid, and I don't know what logic you are trying to say conservatives don't have.
Fertility clinics don't intend to destroy life. The people who go to fertility clinics don't intend to destroy life. Life just doesn't always take hold. If we look at natural pregnancies, I know a large number of pregnancies already fail. And that's only the ones people know about. No one believes a failed pregnancy is murder, because it wasn't intentional. A miscarriage isn't murder.
Lets pretend I am driving down the road and a motorcyclist on the other side of the road blows a tire, loses control of the motorcycle, then ends up sliding under the wheel of my car. As a result, I run him over and he dies. Am I a murderer? No, because I didn't intend to kill him. Of course you could say that "I should have known that 40,000 people a year die in automobile accidents." But that is ridiculous, and I know I'm not going to hell because of an accident.
Let's pretend 5 motorcyclists are on the highway with the express idea to hit you, yet they have no choice in whether they have to hit you or not. They are simply forced to hit you.
4 of them fail utterly and splat on the side of the road - that's 4 dead people.
One of them actually hits you, and lives. You live, too.
Yeah, it's totally different.
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