There Are 22 Million Federal Employees. I Will Vote For Anyone Who Will Cut It To 5 Million.

[harborlady]

Originally Posted by sammbriggs

it would be nice, but it would also be very expensive and very few people would use it. not worth the money.

You would be right in similar vein erecting wind farms in horse latitudes. The volume of traffic and urban sprawl is the only qualifier that counts and to my knowledge Orlando is a candidate. DC and Atlanta traffic is another example of what's become untenable & wasteful of resources (fuel and time stuck in traffic). The Long Island railroad has eliminated hundreds of thousands of cars crossing over limited capacity bridges daily heading to Manhattan and mainland USA. It's extending the shelf lives of roadways and bridges. You have to be willing to do honest assessments of big picture math, not just short term.

The more densely populated an area gets, the harder it becomes to avoid evoking eminent domain clauses to establish right of ways. They need to be established fairly (and most economically) prior to growth, not after the fact hastening disputes & disruptions of ancillary interests. A stitch in time needs a come back, because it's the means of economical governance. Economical governance is not possible when too many special interests prey upon projects such as these with little to no oversight. That's where your disagreement belongs. That's what makes it not worth the money- cost plus type contracts are a glaring example. It's permitted to be a one sided contract paid up front for work never delivered. Normal people don't do business that way. Charlatans do.

[sammbriggs]

Originally Posted by harborlady

You would be right in similar vein erecting wind farms in horse latitudes. The volume of traffic and urban sprawl is the only qualifier that counts and to my knowledge Orlando is a candidate. DC and Atlanta traffic is another example of what's become untenable & wasteful of resources (fuel and time stuck in traffic). The Long Island railroad has eliminated hundreds of thousands of cars crossing over limited capacity bridges daily heading to Manhattan and mainland USA. It's extending the shelf lives of roadways and bridges. You have to be willing to do honest assessments of big picture math, not just short term.

The more densely populated an area gets, the harder it becomes to avoid evoking eminent domain clauses to establish right of ways. They need to be established fairly (and most economically) prior to growth, not after the fact hastening disputes & disruptions of ancillary interests. A stitch in time needs a come back, because it's the means of economical governance. Economical governance is not possible when too many special interests prey upon projects such as these with little to no oversight. That's where your disagreement belongs. That's what makes it not worth the money- cost plus type contracts are a glaring example. It's permitted to be a one sided contract paid up front for work never delivered. Normal people don't do business that way. Charlatans do.

we will have to agree to disagree. if these rail projects were such a good idea, we wouldn't be forced to pay for them, someone would build them as a business. the fact is that there is no demand, neither present nor future for a rail link between tampa and orlando. it wouldn't solve any environmental problems either. you are right about 1 things though, special interest will prey all over these projects like they do over all govt projects, and those with the greatest political contacts will get all the cream. we will be stuck with useless insfratructure and a bill which we'll pay partially and dump on our kids to pay the rest

[bolehboleh]

Originally Posted by Yooperkat

Millions of people didn't have to be hired in the first place. It is an FDR mentality that Democrats have adopted. That government is ALWAYS the solution.

Sorry, the hiring of millions of people, who are not any longer useful, was a failure.

Phase them out and occupy Wall Street.

I'm about half way through these comments, and I'll certainly give you an "A" for effort. You never give up!

"The sky is green."
"Buddy, it's blue."
"Lying liberal and your liberalness!"
"Buddy, look up."
"I bet that's what Mao Obama told you to do. I FEEL that it's green."
"Buddy, look up!"
"I bet Hitler looked up you stupid liberal."
"Sigh."

[harborlady]

Originally Posted by sammbriggs

we will have to agree to disagree. if these rail projects were such a good idea, we wouldn't be forced to pay for them, someone would build them as a business.

You can do better than agree to disagree. No matter what gets built we pay for it one way or another. Shouldn't kid yourself about that blaming the government. You pay corporate taxes for the globe via 'what the market will bear' prior to govt tax imposed. If business was all that and a bag of chips 3rd world would not have been left behind as badly as it's been for centuries and America would not be worse for wear as it currently is. Particularly business that's been operating for decades forced to 'compete' with organized crime pure profit and socialized losses.

Heavy freight moving across rails is proven far more economical than tractor trailers, and intermodal is on the rise for 25 yrs representing collaborative efforts rather than zero sum cut throat tactics within transportation industry. Highway congestion costs $78 billion per year just in wasted travel time (4.2 billion hours) and wasted fuel (2.9 billion US gallons). Rail transportation in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Bringing this intermodal example to a place like Long Island, tractor trailers stuck in Pa waiting for off peek hours to get past tri-state congestion would be better utilized delivering their containers to a rail depot in Pa/ Jersey that meets up with another rail depot picking them up on Long Island for local delivery. Bridges, tunnels, and highways (along with NYC) would breathe a sigh of relief because the population density has gotten too great in the last 60 yrs.

Originally Posted by sammbriggs

the fact is that there is no demand, neither present nor future for a rail link between tampa and orlando. it wouldn't solve any environmental problems either.

The residents there know better than you or I what they need. I don't live in DC or Atlanta, but I could see their problems plain as day as visitor. Highway congestion in Florida represents what % of $78 billion/ 2.9 billion gallons? 80% of Floridians say explosive population growth has been a problem... Focus on Florida: Population, Resources and Quality of Life

Originally Posted by sammbriggs

you are right about 1 things though, special interest will prey all over these projects like they do over all govt projects, and those with the greatest political contacts will get all the cream.

Recall each individual who railed against 'bureaucracy' the past 40 yrs. These were brats annoyed that any rules existed at all. Why does a lobbyist toughie have the power to get a federal civil servant servicing competitive bidding for military contracts fired? Impeccable service record. She was demoted by executive branch why? Any consequence to lobbyists, or do they in fact have nothing to lose conducting themselves as single minded pursuit termites eroding our nation? The balance of power is horribly skewed but few care to believe their hand is in it blaming the government for what is self inflicted.

Originally Posted by sammbriggs

we will be stuck with useless insfratructure and a bill which we'll pay partially and dump on our kids to pay the rest

Transportation for the past 2 centuries has had a curious history. Getting herded one trend after another into all or nothing mirrors boom and bust cycles that charlatans thrive on, but civilization suffers. It's a spendthrift way to go that leaves all at the mercy of monopolistic situations. That's not capitalism but they defend it as if it were. No, our economy cannot be run on whale oil. No, trains cannot solve all things. Cars being abolished is nuts, but so too is forcing everyone into a car through policies displacing all other alternatives. When everything on the shelf in every store is made in china- how is that not communism? What folks have been conditioned to believe is a discrete independence they manage themselves has become a monopoly when your car is dictating foreign policy & crippling our economy.

The limiting growth factor at this point in history is tied to oil, and that restraint needs cutting. We need more alternatives that are less finite and less reliant on systems of largess to deliver energy. Additionally cyber networks have an intrinsic vulnerability that can be locally managed if we design intelligently. We'll always need oil for it's myriad of derivatives, but how much we need ought to be managed better with long term survival in mind. The political positions talking about dumping whatever on their kids- they've actively engaged it for decades fixated on short term goals to service avarice & immediate gratification. Sad fact. Do it for the kids-- yes, please refrain using them as human shields to service selfish agendas. Until the day warships can be run on solar power, strategic reserves are needed for wise reasons.

As legitimate American commerce goes, we all need band aids. Turning up the smarm with sexier new and improved band aids is absurd. They'll just have to leave well enough alone satisfying themselves with slow and steady profits for the long haul. Individuals of infinite ambition bragging on their waxed wings is a doomed mission statement.

We have a basket of choices thus far to solve some localized problems. When IBM operates in an offensive way 'defending' it's typewriter market share, computers would get stomped to death. That's not legitimate business anymore than Gates trying to suppress all others to promote his operating system. There are undoubtedly places in America where small scale horse drawn cargo is pragmatic and they ought to do just that without prohibitive regulations herding them into tractor sales. There are other places where bike lanes, car sharing, and streetcars could stand to have their niche in a given city. They aren't permitted to exist and that's wrong. Perpetually deferring to the interests of gypsy cabs costs more than it's worth when the honest math is reconciled. This does not mean ban gypsy cabs. It means balanced plans and a variety of alternatives are more needful to civilization than myopic special interests that have lost their boundaries relative to local/ national interests.

Rail and automotive industries engaged in zero sum games yields win lose. Rail and automotive industries, each on merits of value alone having it's niche, yields win win symbiotic relationship with civilization. Profiteers of strife have one 'service' to humanity; destruction. Which political party has aided and abetted their agenda at the expense of all else? They are at war with civilization itself.