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Your real problem is that you dislike the topic, because it highlights systemic pathological behavior that is wreaking havoc on many black people.
News Flash: I did not create this thread with the intention of trying to solve the overarching out of wedlock problem. This thread, like all threads on city data are simply used to communicate a particular concern and to discuss an issue.
Honestly, this isn't really as deep as some people are making it. Although I'm now married, my husband and I had two children before we got married. Neither pregnancy was planned (as I suspect is the case in a lot of these instances), but we were committed to one another and our children. We were both also young. When I was 21, we got married.
Lots of these single mothers start out this way as teens. Not a lot of common sense in this age group; unfortunately, some get saddled with children before they make it through these trying years.
re: the IR dating issue. You can't force White/Asian guys to date black women. I have several friends who are open to IR and the white guys just aren't "biting". Of the white guys that I know, many are shy (or downright intimidated) to approach any woman, regardless of her race. (I've played the "wingwoman" one too many times!!!) Seems like dating these days starts with an internet connection. I don't mean to brag, but although I'm an attractive woman, I have never been approached by a white guy. I can tell they're interested and I get looks, but none have ever approached. Perhaps they're more forward where you're from/at, but it is not the norm in my neck of the woods.
One thing that I do know is that the current attitude of "that's just the way it is" and "it's really no big deal" are not a real solution to what is most definitely an issue.
Our opinions and outlooks are colored by our own life experiences, upbringing and expectations. If everyone around you is living a life of depravity than you will see that as "normal". If one has been expected to maintain higher standards in their life choices, then they are much less likely to be as reckless.
And again, one of the reasons that many Black women make less than intelligent decisions regarding their choice of mates and have no issues with having baby after baby out of wedlock is that they believe that they have few choices.
I am not stating that ALL Black women should become involved with relationships with non-Black men and that will sovle the problem of out of wedlock children. I am stating that Black women who do not believe that they have any other options except for the thug or the jailbird or the Casanova are simply more likely to perpetuate the cycle.
Also, no one needs to "force" White, Asian and/or Hispanic men to date/have relationships with/marry Black women. They do that on their own already. And no offense but this may also be an issue of class, or possibly neighborhood/location. However, I do not believe that it is a "fluke" that myself along with numerous other Black women in my life (friends/family/acquaintances) have had long term relationships with and/or are married (with children) to non-Black men. Now that I really, really think about it, that list actually is quite long. The majority of these BW/Non-Black man relationships began pre-Match.com and I personally do not do online dating.
And these are Black women who are not just in California but across the country. I am personally approached all of the time by non-Black men (even when traveling in other parts of the country, even The South, and abroad). I also think that it may be an issue of lower/lower middle class Black women probably being/seeming less approachable or less open to the idea of IRR. Not certain though....and again, no offense.
Mocha has given you a great response, but just wanted to chime in.
Many so-called "good black men" are not "good" in any way that stands out of the ordinary. On the contrary, they are responsible. And, like Mocha stated, since when does doing what you're supposed to do make you some sort of great catch? It really is quite sad and black men who adher to this belief should be ashamed.
The things you state are nothing more than stereotypes. Men who believe this line are usually jaded. Any adult that has been in a previous relationship is going to have some baggage. Not sure why black women are judged so harshly for things they occur with all women. It would seem that we have no room to make mistakes.
I've placed "good black men" in quotes to make it appear more subjective than definitive.
But the bolded is precisely what I am referring to. The unfortunate reality is that many "good black men" aren't committed to these self-proclaimed "good black women" because many of these women are disillusioned that they are already great catches to begin with.
They aren't "playing the field" because they can, they are "playing the field" because they see little value in long term relationships with those very women. Like it or not, that's the conclusion that I have come to understand as difficult as that may be for some to swallow.
And this will only begin with restore a more traditional family structure.
Is that the only way? You think the current generation of black boys are going to rush to the alter to marry? What does it matter if boys have two married parents at home when they are still inundated with misogynistic, violent aspects of pop culture, still failing at school, still don't have true male role models to look up to? Again, lots of married, "traditional" families have failed to produced these type of boys. The issues go deeper beyond lack of a marriage certificate. Boys need involved fathers and parents in general more than the ideology of marriage IMHO.
You don't need the stereotypical "nuclear family" to do something as basic as teaching children basic values. My parents had zero issues doing it and your posts insinuates that unless your married, you can't teach black boys these things. Call me a broken record, but marriage doesn't automatically include commitment and you can teach these young men how to be fathers in ways that doesn't only include telling them to get married
One thing that I do know is that the current attitude of "that's just the way it is" and "it's really no big deal" are not a real solution to what is most definitely an issue.
Our opinions and outlooks are colored by our own life experiences, upbringing and expectations. If everyone around you is living a life of depravity than you will see that as "normal". If one has been expected to maintain higher standards in their life choices, then they are much less likely to be as reckless.
And again, one of the reasons that many Black women make less than intelligent decisions regarding their choice of mates and have no issues with having baby after baby out of wedlock is that they believe that they have few choices.
I am not stating that ALL Black women should become involved with relationships with non-Black men and that will sovle the problem of out of wedlock children. I am stating that Black women who do not believe that they have any other options except for the thug or the jailbird or the Casanova are simply more likely to perpetuate the cycle.
Also, no one needs to "force" White, Asian and/or Hispanic men to date/have relationships with/marry Black women. They do that on their own already. And no offense but this may also be an issue of class, or possibly neighborhood/location. However, I do not believe that it is a "fluke" that myself along with numerous other Black women in my life (friends/family/acquaintances) have had long term relationships with and/or are married (with children) to non-Black men. Now that I really, really think about it, that list actually is quite long. The majority of these BW/Non-Black man relationships began pre-Match.com and I personally do not do online dating.
And these are Black women who are not just in California but across the country. I am personally approached all of the time by non-Black men (even when traveling in other parts of the country, even The South, and abroad). I also think that it may be an issue of lower/lower middle class Black women probably being/seeming less approachable or less open to the idea of IRR. Not certain though....and again, no offense.
Again, I don't think it's that deep. Black women aren't having children OOW out of desperation or because they don't feel they deserve more. Many are instead involved in relationships and end up pregnant (like in my scenario). I don't think it's a case of having little choice. IME, it's been that the women weren't hung up on getting married and somewhere along the way, they ended up pregnant. Again, this has usually occurred among the younger set. I'd be hard-pressed to find a women 30+ who was this reckless. Race is being blamed for something that is tied more closely to age/immaturity.
You say that you've found non-white men who were interested in dating/marrying black women. That's great, but what I'm saying is that this doesn't apply that often in my neck of the woods. If you're in CA, I can imagine that this happens because there is a huge amount of diversity and folks are more laid-back about IR dating. So, it's a bit unfair to compare CA to other areas.
While you say "no offense", I do find your comment re: "low-class" possibly being an explanation for why white men don't approach me a bit offensive. I'm solidly middle-class and do very well for myself. I've never been an "around the way girl" and am very intelligent. Of course, I didn't realize that when folks are telling black women to open their minds to dating outside of their race, that lower-income women need not apply.
While the OP has a valid concern, she has no real point as it relates to this thread on CD. Except to promote her "No Wedding, No Womb" mission/website (which I find annoying).
When I find something annoying, I don't bother with it. There's hundreds of other threads for you to visit, but yet you keep coming back to this particular thread.
I've placed "good black men" in quotes to make it appear more subjective than definitive.
But the bolded is precisely what I am referring to. The unfortunate reality is that many "good black men" aren't committed to these self-proclaimed "good black women" because many of these women are disillusioned that they are already great catches to begin with.
They aren't "playing the field" because they can, they are "playing the field" because they see little value in long term relationships with those very women. Like it or not, that's the conclusion that I have come to understand as difficult as that may be for some to swallow.
Interestingly enough, I've found that the self-proclaimed "good black men" are the ones who are deluded in their assertion of being great catches. It is the very idea that one considers themselves "too good" to settle down, but instead will exploit a perceived advantage, that make them the very opposite of good men.
I have no bone in this fight (married), but I am just really turned off by the "good black man" and "good black woman" talk. It's as if being "good" and "black" is an exception to the rule, so there's always a need to point out that you're "one of the good ones". Very distasteful.
When I find something annoying, I don't bother with it. There's hundreds of other threads for you to visit, but yet you keep coming back to this particular thread.
Are you a new C-D moderator? If not, you have absolutely no control over who participates in a thread. Though you may have started it, you hold no ownership over its direction. And you certainly aren't allowed to self-promote.
re: the IR dating issue. You can't force White/Asian guys to date black women. I have several friends who are open to IR and the white guys just aren't "biting". Of the white guys that I know, many are shy (or downright intimidated) to approach any woman, regardless of her race. (I've played the "wingwoman" one too many times!!!) Seems like dating these days starts with an internet connection. I don't mean to brag, but although I'm an attractive woman, I have never been approached by a white guy. I can tell they're interested and I get looks, but none have ever approached. Perhaps they're more forward where you're from/at, but it is not the norm in my neck of the woods.
See, I have issues w/ online dating because it does make it SO superficial! No one wants to take the time to get to know someone b/c they just go by the picture and more on if they don't like it. I've dated inter-racially and the last relationship I had was w/ a Chinese American who I got to know b/c we shared similar interests. I'd used the internet to go out and seek out people w/ similar interests before doing the whole online dating thing.
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