Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
As I've read through this thread, I've seen a number of intelligent, eye-opening opinions expressed in a way that makes one want to do whatever they can to support a "No wedding, No womb" movement ... or anything else that has some possibility of slowing this horrific tide of out-of-wedlock births in the black community.
A couple of things I've observed over the years, that don't seem to have been addressed straight-on yet in this thread include:
a). There seems to be an attitude of 'accomplishment and pride' among young, black, out-of-wedlock mothers ... as well as among young black men who point to the multiple babies they have fathered with any number of women. (What is this about?)
b). For years, the government has incentivized having more out-of-wedlock babies, by increasing the amount of welfare paid in proportion to the number of children she has. What would happen if someone woke-up and said, "After one out-of-wedlock baby, the welfare check will be CUT by a significant proportion for every subsequent birth"? -- Or perhaps an incentive in homes where the father stayed around and tried to be a father.
c). A large number of young black men (as evidenced by rates of incarceration, school dropouts and drug-selling subculture growth) have bought into the notion that America is hopeless for the black man. By the time they get old enough to realize that the impulsive choices of their youth have destroyed their lives ... it's often too late to change anything.
Good question, and I'll briefly attempt to speak for them. From my observation, they are generally seeking physically attractive women with nice personalities, who are attentive, childless and respectful who they feel are not getting with them with the impression that he should buy or financially support the woman and her habits.
And although I understand what you are saying in regards to "attitude", the sad reality is that understanding it is not a substitute for "tolerating" it. I personally think much of the attitude that you see amongst black women is more so a defense mechanism or an applied method of intimidation to exercise control.
Well, what people consider physically attractive highly varies. Whenever the topic of BM/WW relationships get brought up, people always mention that black men sometimes go for overweight white women. There are overweight women don't have issues (considering the obesity rate in this country, if men didn't want to days overweight women, they may find their pickings, pardon the pun, slim). I'm a size 14-16/12-14 and some men may find that crazy hot, some may not give a fig, and some may be disgusted. Women may feel the same way about men (I personally don't care what size a guy is, so long as he can keep up w/ me since I am the sort who wants to hike/kayak/go on roller coasters/etc). It's highly subjective, so I'm curious if "good black men" just want skinny women, women w/ long, relaxed hair, light skin tones, or something else?
Nice personalities is also a bit subjective though not as much as looks. Do "good black men" want shy women? Assertive? Type A's? submissive? Loud? Soft spoken? I'm very very shy but talkative around people I know. My best friend can strike up a in depth conversation with the guy mopping the train station and makes her opinion known. Which one of us is more preferable to "good black men"?
I can understand childless. Personally, I prefer not to get into a relationship w/ a guy w/ kids due to the drama potential, but I don't think men should automatically brush aside women w/ children. In this day and age of high divorce rates, it may be that, once you hit a certain age, women with children will become more common. So does a "good black man" in, say, his late 30's-40's expect to find women his age w/o kids or baggage?
The last point is interesting b/c I think that black women who can financially support themselves and don't need a man in that regards get negatively labeled as being too independent, as uber feminists who are incapable of leaning on a man for support. I suppose "good black men" don't want women who fall to either extremes.
In my mind, I think "good black men" and "god black women" want the exact same things, but there's a weird disconnect b/c there's not clicking. I don't know if it's b/c black men are more open to IRs and have more options for "good women", black women are looking for much more than the majority of black men can provide (basically being too picky), or something else not touched upon.
And the whole "gold-digger" thing is laughable. The men who complain about gold-diggers are usually the ones that don't even have any "gold" to dig. And overweight? Yeah, right.
It's "gold" when you aren't paying for it lol. A woman who wants her car note, cell phone, clothes, vacations etc etc to be paid for by a man without the use of her own money is a "gold digger."
Quote:
If your suggestion is that black men are shying away from black women because of perceived stereotypes, then I'm even more baffled. With the stereotypes that plague them, are they really ones to throw stones? Luckily, most black women aren't foolish enough to blame all black men for the actions of some of them.
As long as you continue to believe that they are just believing in stereotypes, rather than their actual experiences, then I guess it will continue to leave you baffled. If they are gainfully employed, educated, "nice guys" who come across self-proclaim employed, educated "good black women" with weight problems, children oow and attittude problems, then what do you expect them to say?
What I am saying is, you can't blame it on all black women being too fat, and too ghetto when you yourself may be the equivalent. That is why you are attracting those types of women, because you are on their level and do not want accept it.
I knew two African American guys, who were very overweight, and not the most good looking, who felt they were entitled to some of the hottest girls on campus and in our city. These guys only pursued the prettiest girls and always got rejected. For some reason, they never got the message that they needed to lower their standards. Whenever friends would hook them up with women who looked like them, they were not attracted to them in the least. They didn't like fat girls, even though they were fat. It's not surprising that they are always single. I'm wondering if this is the case with you.
Couldn't agree more. Classic case of over-estimating your looks and attractiveness to the opposite sex. We have a world full of Gnarls Barkleys who want a Halle Berry. Unfortunately, unless they have Gnarls' pockets, it ain't happening. The delusion is really quite sad.
Well, what people consider physically attractive highly varies. Whenever the topic of BM/WW relationships get brought up, people always mention that black men sometimes go for overweight white women. There are overweight women don't have issues (considering the obesity rate in this country, if men didn't want to days overweight women, they may find their pickings, pardon the pun, slim). I'm a size 14-16/12-14 and some men may find that crazy hot, some may not give a fig, and some may be disgusted. Women may feel the same way about men (I personally don't care what size a guy is, so long as he can keep up w/ me since I am the sort who wants to hike/kayak/go on roller coasters/etc). It's highly subjective, so I'm curious if "good black men" just want skinny women, women w/ long, relaxed hair, light skin tones, or something else?
Nice personalities is also a bit subjective though not as much as looks. Do "good black men" want shy women? Assertive? Type A's? submissive? Loud? Soft spoken? I'm very very shy but talkative around people I know. My best friend can strike up a in depth conversation with the guy mopping the train station and makes her opinion known. Which one of us is more preferable to "good black men"?
I can understand childless. Personally, I prefer not to get into a relationship w/ a guy w/ kids due to the drama potential, but I don't think men should automatically brush aside women w/ children. In this day and age of high divorce rates, it may be that, once you hit a certain age, women with children will become more common. So does a "good black man" in, say, his late 30's-40's expect to find women his age w/o kids or baggage?
The last point is interesting b/c I think that black women who can financially support themselves and don't need a man in that regards get negatively labeled as being too independent, as uber feminists who are incapable of leaning on a man for support. I suppose "good black men" don't want women who fall to either extremes.
In my mind, I think "good black men" and "god black women" want the exact same things, but there's a weird disconnect b/c there's not clicking. I don't know if it's b/c black men are more open to IRs and have more options for "good women", black women are looking for much more than the majority of black men can provide (basically being too picky), or something else not touched upon.
For the sake of practicality, time, and energy, I won't address this line by line. But I will say, that many of these men just are not finding whatever it is that they are looking for in black women--hence why they are still single. That's my point, and that has always been the point of my original response. For whatever it's worth---they aren't seeing this alleged "advantage" of their scarcity.
BTW, none of my friends have shown any particular interest (from what I can tell) in wanting to marry or date interracially or outside of their culture. Latinas might be the exception though. But i've never heard any of my friends talk about having any particular interest in white or asian women.
One thing that I do know is that the current attitude of "that's just the way it is" and "it's really no big deal" are not a real solution to what is most definitely an issue.
A huge segment of the indigenous D.C. Blacks reside in substandard housing, where generational poverty, out of wedlock children and overall depravity are the norm.
In all honesty, they are unable to conceive that their entire mindset is pathological because they have no understanding of any other type of existence. Sadly, their children often proclaim, "Marriage is for White People." And in truth, that may very well be the case within their immediate depraved environment.
It's difficult reaching these types of people because they have such low self esteem and virtually no expectations. They simply learn to accept their fate because (for them) 'that's just the way it is' and 'it's really no big deal.'
It's "gold" when you aren't paying for it lol. A woman who wants her car note, cell phone, clothes, vacations etc etc to be paid for by a man without the use of her own money is a "gold digger."
As long as you continue to believe that they are just believing in stereotypes, rather than their actual experiences, then I guess it will continue to leave you baffled. If they are gainfully employed, educated, "nice guys" who come across self-proclaim employed, educated "good black women" with weight problems, children oow and attittude problems, then what do you expect them to say?
Yes, but what sort of men attract these types of women? Who are they that their experiences are relegated to the actions of these sort of women? And I'm sure you are aware that gold diggers come in all shades, correct?
I'm not saying that this isn't something that doesn't happen. It does. But, to blame an unknown black woman for the fault of another seems a bit immature and unfair. Again, if I blamed a black man and cast him in the same light as good-for-nothing black men, wouldn't that be unfair?
For the sake of practicality, time, and energy, I won't address this line by line. But I will say, that many of these men just are not finding whatever it is that they are looking for in black women--hence why they are still single. That's my point, and that has always been the point of my original response. For whatever it's worth---they aren't seeing this alleged "advantage" of their scarcity.
BTW, none of my friends have shown any particular interest (from what I can tell) in wanting to marry or date interracially or outside of their culture. Latinas might be the exception though. But i've never heard any of my friends talk about having any particular interest in white or asian women.
It seems to be a tough egg to crack. I think if both sides, the "good black men" and the "good black women" sat down and stated clearly want they want, there wouldn't be this sense of frustration among black women. Or is such a sit down necessary when both sides can "move on" and open up their dating pool?
She did bring up marriage to him several times, but he was not interested in marrying her at all. He kept using the excuse that none of the women in his family are married, so why should they? He felt marriage was not necesarry for them to have a baby because of how he was brought up. Before they were together for a year, he kept insisting that they have a baby; I remember her telling me how her boyfriend kept pressuring her to get pregnant. She also told me that he hated condoms and wouldn't have sex with her if he had to wear one. There were a couple of pregnancies that resulted in abortion before she finally carried the third pregnancy to term. Her family didn't like him & was against her getting pregnant but they also enabled the possibility. They would let the boyfriend spend the night at their place every night. And he was unemployed while all this was going on. So the family was just all talk.
But I will tell you, that there are a lot of guys who think like him. There are not a lot of marriage minded men left. So after awhile, you start to feel like if you wait until marriage to have kids you will never become a mother.
Nyana, based on your comments, I believe you are an intelligent young woman. You simply need to get out of the mindset that there aren't a lot of 'marriage minded' men left. Your reality is whatever you want it to be.
You should surround yourself with people who have similar aspirations, and goals for the future. If you know that you are uninterested in having out of wedlock children, rid yourself of 'friends' who believe that it's perfectly ok to engage in that type of lifestyle.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
