Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Yes, but: 1) Money donated by the rich is insufficient to care for the large number of the needy, 2) The tithe is used to pay the pastor's salary, mortgage and for church upkeep or expansion, and 3) Jesus tells us not to accumulate our riches on Earth, but to lay them up in heaven. In the final analysis, I'd prefer to be as generous to others as I'd like them to be with me if I fell on hard times. Once again, it's as simple as the Golden Rule.
some good points here,
1: true, the rich dont donate enough money to cover the needs of those we consider needy in this country. but by the same token, many of those that are considered needy are in reality scamming the system. understand that we have three generations of families that are on welfare.
2: the tithe has ALWAYS been used to support the church and its activities. same with sacrifices to god as listed in the old testament. for instance the priests in the old testament ate the sacrificial animals after they had been blessed. they also fed the poor with those sacrifices.
3: also true, but understand that god also gave much in riches to his people on earth as well. he did expect them to use the wealth wisely though, and to not let the wealth rule their lives.
in the old days the golden rule was do unto others as you would have them do unto you. and many of us still live by that rule, christian or not. however these days there are those that have changed the golden rule to "he who has the gold makes the rules". sad state of affairs that this attitude is becoming more prevalent, especially in the halls of government.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evenstar51
Certainly I know what tithing is; I simply pointed out that churches use part of the money for other things. As for President Obama, he simply wants to raise the taxes on the very richest Americans back to the level that it was under Clinton,and the wealthy did quite well during those years. When even Warren Buffett agrees that it isn't fair that his secretary pays a higher tax rate than he does, one must ponder whether that situation is fair or not. And if we all lived by the Golden Rule, we'd be too proud to let other Americans go hungry, homeless or jobless. Judging from some posters, I'd have to disagree with you on that point.
i have issues with this post.
1: the times were quite different now than when clinton was in office. during the clinton years we had a booming economy, so the people didnt mind a small tax increase. however when the economy slowed down after the dotcom bubble burst, the higher taxes did hurt the economy, and after the 9/11 attacks and the subsequent downturn during a recession, it was lower taxes that helped keep the economy from crashing. we still have a soft economy, and raising taxes now would only hurt the economy not help.
2: on the surface buffet does pay a lower tax rate than his secretary, but if we dig deeper we find that
a) warren buffet makes his money from investments in business, which is taxed at a lower rate to encourage investment.
b) his secretary is getting her money from earned income.
c) buffet actually ends up paying a higher tax rate in reality because while he pays 15% on his investments, the businesses he has invested in are taxed at the 35% corporate rate.
d) when all is said and done, and all the deductions are figured in, buffets secretary does in fact pay a lower rate than buffet does.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mackinac81
*You must spread some reputation around before giving it to muleskinner again*
I don't think Jesus was either liberal or conservative. He paid his taxes, but he was apolitical. But the right wingers here shouldn't get so sanctimonious about liberals invoking Jesus when they use the Lord to back up every ungodly policy they happen to support--and yes, some of them are ungodly in the truest sense of the term.
I'm an evangelical who happens to be a liberal, but I know many great Christians who are conservatives--somehow they work that out. Don't ask me how. Personally, I can't reconcile American right wing politics with the Gospel. Because as I look at both, I see that they have nothing at all to do with each other. But that's me. Thankfully Jesus never said to flash your Republican/Democratic Party membership card before you can come into heaven.
you are right, jesus was like everyone else, conservative in some areas, and liberal in others. and i also agree that politicians should not be invoking their religious beliefs to support their position on most things. it is one thing to confess their religion, and stand behind it, it is quite another to push ones religion. i am a christian, and i am conservative, and it does fit with the teachings of god. the problem people have in using religion though is that you cannot just take small passages from the bible, especially ones taken out of context, and use them to support your position.
in the end we as humans all fall short of what god wants us to be as people.
We also need to pass a law limiting how much a CEO can make and to absolutely forbid them from owning stock in the company they work for or related companies. They should be paid for their performance with bonuses. NO STOCK OPTIONS.
We also need a law limiting a politicians campaign funds. Have you looked at how much money Obama has to waste any time lately?
I wish that that were correct. Unfortunately, most of our politicians are asshats who can't tell fantasy from reality. In other words, they are just like most of the rest of the idiot population.
Probably. Since Allah found fit to speak to the world through Jesus.
Fun fact: The Koran mentions Jesus more often than it mentions Mohammed.
The Koran also instructs it's followers to kill all the Jews and Christians. That's DEFINITELY not the religion we want imposed on our government.
Even though Christianity is great, we live in a country where the Founders established separation of Church and State, the State is not supposed to establish a national religion, not even Obama's Communist one.
Location: Democratic Peoples Republic of Redneckistan
11,078 posts, read 15,086,202 times
Reputation: 3937
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimMe
"For everyone to whom much is given, from him much will be required." Luke 12:48
This is the second time (that I'm aware of) that Obama has quoted this verse of Scripture--in the State of the Union address and at the prayer breakfast--to justify raising taxes on the wealthy. I can only assume that, in so doing, Obama considers himself equal to God. Because it's quite clear that Jesus, in this passage of Scripture, was referring to God's blessings and how God expects a person to use those blessings in a way that glorifies God. In other words God is the agent in both the giving and the expecting.
But Obama appropriates this verse and makes himself the giver and the expecter. In his telling the wealthy (however you choose to define that term) did not earn their wealth or come by it honestly. It was given to them. And because it was given to them the giver has a right to expect them to return it to the giver in whatever amount he determines to be "fair."
At the moment "fair" is 30%. Obama the Giver might at a later date decide "fair" is 50% or more. That's his preogative as the Expecter. That's pretty heady stuff!
IIRC capital gains is 15% and with tax loopholes that 30% usually turns to zero...so that's all bogus.
I do NOT think the rich or "well off" should be taxed into poverty,but I DO think the loopholes should be closed,offshore accounts penalized and capital gains taxed the same as any other income...if I make a dollar,X % goes to taxes...shouldn't it be the same for all or are the "rich" special?
You know how it got to this point,the rich throughout history have given small bribes,lobbyied etc to get them to the point they are with taxes today...can you or I do that?Where's your voice in the matter or mine?
Certainly I know what tithing is; I simply pointed out that churches use part of the money for other things. As for President Obama, he simply wants to raise the taxes on the very richest Americans back to the level that it was under Clinton,and the wealthy did quite well during those years. When even Warren Buffett agrees that it isn't fair that his secretary pays a higher tax rate than he does, one must ponder whether that situation is fair or not. And if we all lived by the Golden Rule, we'd be too proud to let other Americans go hungry, homeless or jobless. Judging from some posters, I'd have to disagree with you on that point.
Ah, the sainted Warren Buffett! If Buffett wanted fairness, as defined by Obama, he would declare all his yearly earnings as earned income and be taxed on that basis rather than avoid paying the same tax rate as does his secretary by taking stock options rather than a salary. His effective tax rate would then be about 50% on a salary of about $5 billion last year. So let Mr. Buffett hand over to Obama $2.5 billion that then can be throw into so-called green boondoggles like Solyndra. Let him practice what he preaches.
The Koran also instructs it's followers to kill all the Jews and Christians. That's DEFINITELY not the religion we want imposed on our government.
not true. the koran instructs the followers of islam to convert non believers to islam, or kill those that refuse to believe. HOWEVER, until 1916 jews and christians were a protected minority in the nation of islam, as they believed in the SAME god. granted christians, jews, and muslims all fought with each other through the centuries for a variety of reasons.
so what changed in 1916? that was when the ottoman empire joined the axis powers. but in order for that to happen, the islamic clerics had to issue a fatwah allowing muslim soldiers to kill christians. it was supposed to be a fatwah limited to what we know as world war one, but it got perverted as a result of the ottomans backing the wrong side, and was never rescinded.
Quote:
Even though Christianity is great, we live in a country where the Founders established separation of Church and State, the State is not supposed to establish a national religion, not even Obama's Communist one.
actually there is NO separation of church and state in the constitution, only the congress shall make no laws regarding the establishment of religion, nor teh free exercise there of. in other words there would be NO church of the united states. the only mention of a separation of church and state was in the jefferson papers, and the things he wrote which were not government documents.
Well put. Right wingers may try to hide behind the Jesus card, but in the teaching of the bible, especially fiscal matters, would place Jesus as a hardcore liberal.
Sounds like the talk of a bible thumping LWNJ.....
From the article, here is all that i could find of what the president said:
"For me as a Christian, it also coincides with Jesus's teaching that for unto whom much is given, much shall be required"
"I know that far too many neighbors in our country have been hurt and treated unfairly over the last few years, and I believe in God's command to love thy neighbor as thyself. I know a version of that golden rule is found in every major religion and every set of beliefs."
I guess I don't see anything about taxes or jesus backing him, other then in the mind of the creator of the article.
If I am missing something (is there some secret christian code words?) that he said, can you point it out in the article.
Read your quote more slowly. 1+1 does equal 2 no matter how much you try to pretend it doesn't.....
1: true, the rich dont donate enough money to cover the needs of those we consider needy in this country. but by the same token, many of those that are considered needy are in reality scamming the system. understand that we have three generations of families that are on welfare.
2: the tithe has ALWAYS been used to support the church and its activities. same with sacrifices to god as listed in the old testament. for instance the priests in the old testament ate the sacrificial animals after they had been blessed. they also fed the poor with those sacrifices.
3: also true, but understand that god also gave much in riches to his people on earth as well. he did expect them to use the wealth wisely though, and to not let the wealth rule their lives.
in the old days the golden rule was do unto others as you would have them do unto you. and many of us still live by that rule, christian or not. however these days there are those that have changed the golden rule to "he who has the gold makes the rules". sad state of affairs that this attitude is becoming more prevalent, especially in the halls of government.
i have issues with this post.
1: the times were quite different now than when clinton was in office. during the clinton years we had a booming economy, so the people didnt mind a small tax increase. however when the economy slowed down after the dotcom bubble burst, the higher taxes did hurt the economy, and after the 9/11 attacks and the subsequent downturn during a recession, it was lower taxes that helped keep the economy from crashing. we still have a soft economy, and raising taxes now would only hurt the economy not help.
2: on the surface buffet does pay a lower tax rate than his secretary, but if we dig deeper we find that
a) warren buffet makes his money from investments in business, which is taxed at a lower rate to encourage investment.
b) his secretary is getting her money from earned income.
c) buffet actually ends up paying a higher tax rate in reality because while he pays 15% on his investments, the businesses he has invested in are taxed at the 35% corporate rate.
d) when all is said and done, and all the deductions are figured in, buffets secretary does in fact pay a lower rate than buffet does.
you are right, jesus was like everyone else, conservative in some areas, and liberal in others. and i also agree that politicians should not be invoking their religious beliefs to support their position on most things. it is one thing to confess their religion, and stand behind it, it is quite another to push ones religion. i am a christian, and i am conservative, and it does fit with the teachings of god. the problem people have in using religion though is that you cannot just take small passages from the bible, especially ones taken out of context, and use them to support your position.
in the end we as humans all fall short of what god wants us to be as people.
Where was He liberal?
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
