Trayvon Martin Case Updates: 2 Judges Recuse, "graphic pictures" of Zimmerman's Injuries, Bond set at $150K (FBI, death)
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The article I posted last week, Trayvon's Mother said it was her son screaming for help.
Yes, she did and his father didn't. gz's family members said it was his voice. The FBI couldn't come up with a match. I suppose both sides will give their version of events and ask whether it makes more sense that tm was yelling for help before gz shot him, or gz yelled for help as tm was hitting him.
What the last few posters have eluded to is called "Situational Awareness". Some people have it, others don't. Law enforcement is taught it and it is ingrained into their thought process forever. Treyvon Martin was still formative and did not have it. Situational Awareness is sometimes called, "Street Smarts".
You can always tell a cop or ex-cop because they are always acutely aware of their environment and it shows.
People who walk around with ear buds and Ipods are prey. They have none.
People who walk/drive and text have none.
People who think all mankind are inherently good are delusional. There are evil/sick people in the world who have their own agenda that one can never know or understand.
The difference between prey and predator is that the predator always has the upper hand because he knows what his next move is and when he will strike.
One must develop an acute sense of their surroundings and stay aware at all times to predator attacks.
After 625 pages of posts concerning the Martin incident, what would be the consensus of the majority here?
Was Treyvon Martin predator or prey? Who initiated the contact? Who, of the two, had a well thought out agenda?
I say that in this case Treyvon Martin was the prey and Zimmerman was the predator.
When prey become aware they are cornered by a predator they will turn around and fight, no matter what the odds.
I watched a desert mouse turn around and bare it's teeth and stand it's ground when there was nowhere else for it to run and my cat had cornered it in the garden shed.
Of course when the lion is bringing down the Zebra, the Zebra will kick hard in one last attempt to dislodge the lion from it's throat as did Treyvon in a futile attempt to fight off his predator, but in both cases all to no avail.
I appreciate you backing me up on this against the gun toter's "the gun packer is always right" mentality.
In general, SYG (as it is written now) is going to allow a number of what would have been shoving matches and fist fights generate into shootings. At some point two concealed carriers are going to have a dispute, and they are going to shoot each other. If they both survive then I suppose they both could claim SYG.
You're welcome; the attitude has been all to present in this thread. I was raised with a father and grandfather who hunted and have an old friend who's a competitive shooter...my neighbor collects firearms. I thought I was very open-minded about the Second Amendment because of that, but having been attacked as being a liar, paranoid, anti-self defense and whatever people thought but didn't dare post, it's given me pause in terms of the ready availability of firearms and the laws that govern their use. Many people laughed when, early on, a few of us posted about the complicity of the Sanford P.D., and as justNancy has pointed out, the special meetings to discuss the case the night of the shooting speak to exactly such complicity. It turns out that Zimmerman had no problem lying to the judge under oath, nor in involving his wife in the perjury as well. It seems that Zimmerman is no exemplar for the NRA to hold up to the public. One has to wonder about the kind of mindset that would encourage the demonization of a dead teen rather than back away from a rogue NW
admirer with a history of violence. Attacking people who questioned Zimmerman's actions when he shot Martin is no way to win friends and influence people.
GZ had at least 3 advantages at the start. You mentioned, no witnesses. Another was the injuries. Police observation and Early witnesses seemed to support gz's contention that he was on the ground and yelled for help. Others I'm sure would add the victim was black, gz's father, and other things.
What I really don't like is the defendant gets 2 shots at getting off. The immunity hearing if he wants one and then a trial. I'm 99.9999% sure the bill's authors and Bush didn't understand how the law would work procedurally or in practice, regardless of what they Thought or Intended.
This case isn't really a precedent because others mentioned in this and the SYG thread had the defendant follow the victim and no witnesses.
imo.
I suppose we'll have to see; many of the published documents are heavily redacted, making it difficult to make any informed decisions. The closest to a witness that we know of is the young woman who was on the phone with Martin; her testimony will address how both she and Martin perceived Zimmerman's movements and how they fit into the timeline as narrowed by cell phone records and the timing of the call to the police dispatcher. As many of us noted, Zimmerman's injuries hardly reflect the kind of serious beating that Martin was allegedly delivering. In looking at the lab reports, IIRC there were swabs taken from blood on the grass but none from any pavement, as Zimmerman had explained it. As for the passing of the bill, perhaps we should once again question the influence of lobbyists on what legislation is enacted, especially at the state level. It seems disconcerting that people who have been elected to represent the best interests of their constituents could not have foreseen a situation such as this; perhaps the "double
exit" defense was a selling point. I just find it difficult to understand that a woman firing a warning shot could get a long sentence, while someone like Zimmerman was let go. Also that people are so cavalier about Martin's age: The U.S. is one of a few countries that allow children and the mentally challenged to be tried as functioning adults...perhaps that thinking needs to be revisited as well. Just imho.
What the last few posters have eluded to is called "Situational Awareness". Some people have it, others don't. Law enforcement is taught it and it is ingrained into their thought process forever. Treyvon Martin was still formative and did not have it. Situational Awareness is sometimes called, "Street Smarts".
You can always tell a cop or ex-cop because they are always acutely aware of their environment and it shows.
People who walk around with ear buds and Ipods are prey. They have none.
People who walk/drive and text have none.
People who think all mankind are inherently good are delusional. There are evil/sick people in the world who have their own agenda that one can never know or understand.
The difference between prey and predator is that the predator always has the upper hand because he knows what his next move is and when he will strike.
One must develop an acute sense of their surroundings and stay aware at all times to predator attacks.
After 625 pages of posts concerning the Martin incident, what would be the consensus of the majority here?
Was Treyvon Martin predator or prey? Who initiated the contact? Who, of the two, had a well thought out agenda?
I say that in this case Treyvon Martin was the prey and Zimmerman was the predator.
When prey become aware they are cornered by a predator they will turn around and fight, no matter what the odds.
I watched a desert mouse turn around and bare it's teeth and stand it's ground when there was nowhere else for it to run and my cat had cornered it in the garden shed.
Of course when the lion is bringing down the Zebra, the Zebra will kick hard in one last attempt to dislodge the lion from it's throat as did Treyvon in a futile attempt to fight off his predator, but in both cases all to no avail.
Excellent post, mowhawkx, and one with which I agree. I hope you gave that mouse a reprieve. It would have been quite a blow to Zimmerman to be bested by a teen-ager. I believe that it was Martin screaming for help; I find it difficult to believe that he imagined that Zimmerman would pull a gun on him. He and his family thought that they had the situation handled, except Martin's parents wanted a good reason as to why their son was killed and reached out for public support. Had they not done so, it would be simply one more dead without a just cause.
"I know," he replies. "Um, my dad's really confident about everything. I don't know what was said in that meeting, but my dad seemed very, very confident."
Excellent post, mowhawkx, and one with which I agree. I hope you gave that mouse a reprieve. It would have been quite a blow to Zimmerman to be bested by a teen-ager. I believe that it was Martin screaming for help; I find it difficult to believe that he imagined that Zimmerman would pull a gun on him. He and his family thought that they had the situation handled, except Martin's parents wanted a good reason as to why their son was killed and reached out for public support. Had they not done so, it would be simply one more dead without a just cause.
The screaming for help lasted roughly 18 seconds. I'm just not seeing a scenario where gz would have let tm scream for help that long before shooting him. Add in that tm was shot from less than 4-feet away, maybe a few inches away, I'm sticking with gz yelled for help.
The FBI analyzed the tape for the state and couldn't determine who yelled for help. TM's father said it wasn't his voice.
Keep dreaming.
ONE person who happens to work for the FBI couldn't determine, that doesn't mean other experts using different methods are unable to make a determination. The experts on the state's witness list have both been accepted by the courts as experts and testified many times in court. There are TWO of them.
Trayvon's MOTHER, the woman he lived with and the one who raised him said she was CERTAIN the cries came from Trayvon. When she breaks down on the stand as the prosecutor plays the 911 call and asks for her opinion, you can bet it will resonate with every mother on that jury. Let's make that every single person on the jury.
Maybe you should also try using common sense. Who is more likely to be the one screaming, the 28 year old with a semi-automatic, or the unarmed teenager? Oh, and the cries ended the second the shot was fired. It ain't that hard to figure out Sherlock.
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Well said.
