Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I'll refrain from answering the rest of the above posts, since we've REALLY gone off topic here! If you want to discuss the Bible, we have a religious forum for that... and if you want to discuss gay marriage, we have a zillion threads for that too.
Oh, but I have to at least address this... the original Bible (Torah & "Old Testament" as you call it) was written in Hebrew and Aramaic. It was only the New Testament which was written in Greek, and most arguments against gays usually come from OT passages.
You might have a point if these same Christians you are so quick to condemn for their disapproval of homosexuality didn't also disapprove of idolatry, drunkenness, adultery, fornication, slothfulness, lying, stealing, slander, gluttony, etc.
"And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them."
Romans 1:28-32 KJV
Sounds like an apt discription of many so-called 'Christians' I've come across on CD forums, especially the rabidly anti-gay ones.
Of course there are a number of Christians on these forums who actually behave in a way that shows they follow Christ's teachings. They seem like genuinely good people, unlike the haters.
As I mentioned, I think his choice of words for a teen audience was poor. I think there are ways to call out the hypocrisy of a subset of people who, as he mentions in the video, choose to literally interpret certain passages of the Bible but not literally interpret others and use the selectively literal reading as reason to bully LGBT folks, in a way that doesn't alienate all Christians. Does that make sense? I also think that there is a whole lot of smoke where there isn't too much fire in terms of the response from a few groups/media sources.
I honestly couldn't tell you if the function of his presenting at the journalism conference was to drum up support for It Gets Better Project - I would think he was there because he is an advice columnist who deals with controversial topics, but I could be wrong. I also can't tell you what he was thinking and he seems to have not yet issued any kind of a statement about it. While I think it's not prudent to alienate people from one's cause, whatever that cause may be, the crowd was estimated at about 3000, yes? And about 100 students were offended and left? That still leaves a wide majority who did listen to his presentation, regardless of whether they agreed with that piece or not. Up thread there was a link that quoted another Christian student who was not offended by the remarks and did not leave, which makes me wonder a bit if the media is making it seem like he was attacking all Christians, rather than one particular practice that some Christians engage in (I.e., selective literal interpretation with the intent of justifying bullying).
I think it is unfortunate that he chose his words in a way that they could be interpreted as "he's a bully, too." I also couldn't tell you if the current media attention is alienating people who would otherwise have supported/did support IT Gets Better Project or drawing more people who do.
Not all people automatically leave when they are offended. It is usually a symbolic response anyway. There are always going to be people who (intentionally or not) offend others, and thats just life. But, this situation points to a bigger problem... What is the real intent of the it gets better program? Is this a gay vs Christian scenario? If it is, then fine lets argue it from that position! The pro-gay crowd, and liberals in general are always trying to exaggerate these special interest situations where minorities are being bullied by the good guys (i.e. conservative Christians) Look at Travon Martin, illegal immigration, class warfare and taxes, etc. You want me to PAY for birth control? I'm outraged
Only if you admit the right is even LESS tolerant... I mean c'mon, which side is the one laughing at and mocking this situation, while using it to fuel their existing hatred of all gay people? And are you going to tell me the conservatives are tolerant and loving towards gay people, liberals, atheists, etc? Yeah, sure.
Even if he was the most intolerant man on earth, that still doesn't make "the left" intolerant as a result - or would you like me to judge the right on Rush Limbaugh and Ann Coulter alone? Individuals do not speak for an entire segment (over half) of the population, ya know.
Individuals do not speak for an entire group, but in this case he had the microphone! If gays don't want Dan Savage speaking for them then they need to pull the plug. But, it also appears that pres Obama likes him too
We have every reason to believe that those views are the majority
Fact: They have conducted polls since the passing of PropH8, and the MAJORITY now say they would support a measure allowing gay marriage... including those who originally voted for the Prop, and now say they were duped by Mormon propaganda. Even when it did pass, that was by a very small margin - so you can't claim I'm alone in my support of the issue, now can you?
I didn't say that you were alone. I just stated the facts that in real elections the gay marriage issue has been voted no every time. And, many states have added a state amendment that bans it altogether. The entire gay marriage issue needs to be resolved by the U.S Supreme court! What do you think?
I'm not talking about Christians being attacked, which was basically the whole PREMISE of this thread - so of course that was brought into the discussion early on, since the OP was basing his whole argument on "he attacked Christians." I'm talking about the BIBLE and its supposed condemnation of homosexuality, which is inevitably brought into every discussion about gay people. How does that even matter, when not everyone in this country (or world) is a Christian?
The original story (remember Dan Savage?) specificlly mentioned the bible. So, thats why it was brought up. At this point, you have to pick a side. gays vs Christians
Now getting back to the issue at hand, let's go with the assumption he WAS attacking Christians... even if we all agree that was wrong, how is it relevant to the anti-bullying movement in general? Maybe his approach was flawed (he is famous for inciting controversy, right?), but I don't see how this one man's actions should debunk an entire movement. I think the "It gets better" campaign sends a wonderful message, and quite honestly I wish such a thing had existed when I was young.
I'm not in favor of any government measures, necessarily, but sending out a positive message like that is nothing but good IMO. Some very prominent and less controversial celebrities have contributed, and I've personally heard teens say how it DID make them feel better. I know one teen who was contemplating suicide last year, and knowing that he's not alone (and us adults from his after-school program reassuring him it does get better) got him through those rough times. How is that a bad thing?
Then why make it a political and/or religious argument? Wouldn't it be better to stick to the bully message? And, if you really want to stop bullying then maybe even bring in a heterosexual speaker? Have you ever heard of the term "preaching to the choir"? Having a gay activist speak out like this doesn't win over anyone else.
How do you know he 'went straight into homosexuality and the Bible"?
Was that video the whole speech, or just the part about the hypocrisy of using the Bible to condemn gay people when the Bible clearly condones slavery etc?
His speech was right on the mark in my opinion. He could have avoiding using the word 'BS' however. And he should have been clearer that he was not referring to ALL Christians, just the bigoted ignorant ones who cherry-pick and abuse the Bible for their own prejudices.
wy did he even bring up Christians at all? he did it because he hates Christians It is obvious that he hates Christians by reading his many articles. And, it's no coincidence that gay people are anti-Christian. So the argument that people should just accept homosexuality as normal is a serious question. When a group of people come out and publicly make their anti-Christian views known then you have to take that into account. Wasn't this supposed to be about bullying?
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
It is obvious that he hates Christians by reading his many articles. And, it's no coincidence that gay people are anti-Christian. So the argument that people should just accept homosexuality as normal is a serious question. When a group of people come out and publicly make their anti-Christian views known then you have to take that into account. Wasn't this supposed to be about bullying?
