The Sorry and Confusing Lives of Today's Young Men (parade, drug, dollar)

[Beliciano]

Originally Posted by box_of_zip_disks

The thing all these articles fail to mention is moving out at 18 and living on your own is almost entirely an American phenomenon, and a recent one at that. In actual 1st world countries where owning a house is almost unheard of most kids live at home through university age and sometimes beyond or live with roommates for many years. In southern Europe, families with children living at home into their 30s until marriage is the norm. Pre-WWII America was similar- multi-family units, several generations sticking around the homestead, etc. etc.

People make the mistake of assuming that something they and their parents grew up with has always been the case. A lot of people I know my age who settled down ages ago, have kids, into the middle of their careers, etc. are going back to how we used to live in many ways. They buy decent sized houses and have their retired parents, sometimes aunts and uncles move in to help with kids. Even for people with a little money it makes way more sense and they manage to do something that Americans haven't for decades- save.

I am a foreigner and agree with this. My sister is 29 and has never left home, she works in the financial sector and she get's PAID. She also pays as much into the mortgage as our parents do. I also have several family members who have three generations living one house.

[Beliciano]

Originally Posted by mandavaran

At least that man living in his parents basement and playing video games isn't a drain on taxpayers. He likely won't even reproduce his worthless genes as, judging by this article, no woman would want him.

This cannot be refuted.

Originally Posted by Ro2113

Here's the million dollar question, if these guys aren't living off your tax dollars, then why do you care? I'm pretty sure if these guys were lying dead in a ditch somewhere not one of you would give a crap but it sure is easy to criticize and scrutinize.

As for dating I've been working towards getting my own place and when I do, rest assured I'll be sitting in there playing video games firing up the porn because I've earned that right and I'll be damned if anyone tries to take that right away from me. I spent a lot of my younger years bending over backwards for dates. Never again. If that means I'll be alone well I'm used to it now so no skin off my back.

When I finally had a descent job and my own place that is exactly what I ended up doing, as did my best friend from high school.

[Skydive Outlaw]

Originally Posted by Leisesturm

If the author is female I fully expect that she thinks men should just pull six figure jobs out of their behinds and make it so that women that have six figure incomes can stash it all in the bank and live off what their boyfriends or husbands make.
H

That scenario is really common in the US now too. Even when a woman makes over six figures, she has NO intention of meeting a man that makes less than her and then requires her to support the household in any way. For women like that - finding a man that earns alot of money is just a ticket for them to take all of the money that they as women make and use it for whatever they want. The down payment and/or cost of admission to the relationship for the guy is to make alot of money and then use all or most of it to sustain the relationship financially, leaving a woman that might make over six figures to do whatever she wants with "her" money. And they think that they are justified in doing things that way.

Show me a woman with an income over six figures and I'll show you a woman that wants the man she is with (that she manipulatively convinced that she "loves") to cover all of the foundational costs of being in a relationship or married to her: mortgage, household expenses, etc. And if the man does make alot of money, it is just a free pass for the woman to do whatever she wants with hers. No woman that makes over six figures (and that is also hot) would ever consider doing anything financially in a relationship that required more of her than she thought she had to invest in the relationship. And that will never change in the US.

Nobody loves anyone anymore. In the US, "relationships" are just twisted, narcissistically-induced games based on preconcieved rigid views often lacking any basis in reality, fueled by stated as well as implied demands and expectations under the guise of a mythical and fantasy based emotion called love that is nothing more than a pyschologically based need for another person to reflect back an image that one party expects another to bounce back like a human mirror that is devoid of any link with reality. The current socio-economic conditions in the US are guaranteed to make every aspect of it worse in the coming years.

And when the relationship is over, due either to both parties growing apart (since intimacy, even fake intimacy) ultimately breeds contempt, and the possibility of other options/lovers exists combined with unrealistic expectations within the relationship not being met. . . . then people get divorced and it is so easy now in society that the ease of which a divorce can be obtained, by default makes any and all "marriages" absoultely meaningless.

Sky-O

[Beliciano]

Originally Posted by Skydive Outlaw

Nobody loves anyone anymore. In the US, "relationships" are just twisted, narcissistically-induced games based on preconcieved rigid views often lacking any basis in reality, fueled by stated as well as implied demands and expectations under the guise of a mythical and fantasy based emotion called love that is nothing more than a pyschologically based need for another person to reflect back an image that one party expects another to bounce back like a human mirror that is devoid of any link with reality. The current socio-economic conditions in the US are guaranteed to make every aspect of it worse in the coming years.

Sky-O

This is why I feel marriage is nowhere near sacred as people make it out to be. The "Hook-Up" culture of today is highly prevalent, people "fall in love" one minute and hate each other the next minute. This article is analytical in no way whatsoever.

[Trimac20]

I think blaming it on feminism is for the most part, a cop-out. The idea that modern society is better suited to females is also a load of rubbish. Sure, big muscles don't count for as much in an information/service-orientated economy, but some young men are flat out lazy. And I probably include myself in that group at times, although in my case there are mitigating circumstances...a debilitating mental disorder, not that I use that as an excuse. It's just the result of a privileged upbringing: young men have all the same opportunities as young women, so what's stopping them from grabbing them? College is 'feminine'? That's the first I've heard of it.

I also think the article paints with too broad a brush: personally, for every 30 year old loser who stays at home with mum and spends his days playing video games and watching porn, I know several who are 'successful' in life...what's more, why is success so linked with economic success? And also, why is there such a pressure to move out to 'make it'? Most young people around the world actually stay in the parental home until they get married! Even countries like Germany.

The thing about sex is applicable to both genders...Women also try to look like porn stars...I agree porn for the most part is not a positive instinct but it's part of human nature and modern civilisation.

Yes it does sometimes seem women are keener to succeed in life. Maybe it's compensation, maybe young women aren't still given as much freedom so they want to try to 'break out.' Still, I think the figures are probably exaggerated. There are also women who are unemployed, stay at home, going nowhere in life. Yet women are never criticized for being 'losers.'

[The Dissenter]

Originally Posted by Beliciano

What is wrong with a man who would rather deal with porn than a relationship? You have to understand not everyone wants the same things out of life. Some dudes only want sex, and I see nothing wrong with that whatsoever. To be honest, I just do not have the personality to deal with many women in a relationship. I find too many women I come across as too needy, and I am the type that likes to do what I want, when I want, how I want and with whom I like doing it with. Plus it is much better for men like this to be dealing with porn as opposed to creating a bunch of kids they will not take care of.

Besides, I read the article and was nothing but an agenda written drivel.

Agreed. It seems like women in this instance are mad that these guys who have reasonable alternatives won't approach them for a date so they can shoot him down.

[Trimac20]

Originally Posted by Broncos Quarterback

It ain't black men? Ha ha, surely you jest. I think we men have it pretty good b/c in general, we have more of the type of intelligence that is rewarded by the marketplace, namely math and science. And if we don't, we're more likely to have the inborn traits to work in the skilled trades. For women, if they don't possess the natural intelligence and/or family background to graduate from college and/or graduate school, they don't have many options.

This is all in general, I realize many women have the traits to work in skilled trades and women are not far behind on average in terms of math and science intelligence. It's just that it's more likely that a man will be in the top 10-20% in math/science than a woman. Career success is much easier if you're very good at math and/or science.

Women have been working at 'trades' for millenia. It's just they're no longer skilled in 'female trades' like sewing, or making baskets, because that's no longer expected of them. Women are physical beings too, they don't just have a brain and looks. Some of them ought to just suck it up and do the dirty jobs, not only wanting to do cushy jobs like a secretary or 'working with children' as I always hear them say.

[Trimac20]

Women who value a man mostly on his worth or his career success are just setting themselves up for disappointment and are pretty short-sighted. They don't want love, they want to 'get up' in life, they want status and the goodies that come with it. In typical American fashion, the article praises 'climbing the corporate ladder' as the be all and end all of success. What about relationships? You know, things with more importance than dollars and cents. The grown up kids staying at home playing video games are probably the ones really laughing...they may moan about it being 'emasculating' but many wouldn't change it. I agree in that sense that they have it TOO easy. Yet working your butt off isn't the answer either.

[zentropa]

Originally Posted by Skydive Outlaw

Show me a woman with an income over six figures and I'll show you a woman that wants the man she is with (that she manipulatively convinced that she "loves") to cover all of the foundational costs of being in a relationship or married to her

I make over 6 figures. I haven't dated anyone who made more than half of my salary in the past 7 years.

My friend N makes over 6 figures. Her BF works at Trader Joe's

My friend E makes over 6 figures. Her husband is a commercial fisherman.

My friend B is retired and lives on an inheritance which brings 6 figures. Her BF works on the railroad.

My friend M also makes 6 figures and dates blue collar guys exclusively.

We all own our own homes, in our own names, and pay our own mortgages.


OK, I showed you. Now will you pretend we do not exist?

[Trimac20]

Originally Posted by pvande55

The economic depression of the last four years, euphemistically termed the Great Recession, has destroyed such fields as Engineering and Construction, that were male dominated. One factor the article ignores altogether: Young men living with parents are often given more freedom while women are kept on a short leash. For this reason women are more anxious to move out at a younger age.

This. No matter how liberal society gets, this double standard will always exist.

'Son, go sow your wild oats!'

'Daughter, don't you dare think about having sex before you marry somebody we approve of!'