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Do you think Rachel Maddow would make a better father or mother?
Who were her role models? Do you think she'd be different if her parents were normal, or if she was raised by 2 women or a single woman? If your answer is no difference, what if she was raised by monkeys, would that make any difference?
There are many gay men that have little use for women, many lesbians disdain men - so how good would they be at raising a normal person of the opposite sex?
Things to think about. I'm not really expecting answers, but feel free.
What is this supposed to imply? Ms Maddow has a mother and father, who by the way, are still together. Ms Maddow describes her family as "very, very Catholic" and says that she grew up in a very conservative community. Her parents are clearly heterosexuals and they happened to have a homosexual child.
Are they not "normal" by your standards?
Ms Maddow is the product of a traditional nuclear family. She is highly educated and by any measure extremely successful.
She had every thing that you seem to believe any child should have, and, she's still gay.
Somehow, her not-gay parents were able to relate to her and provide her with the tools needed to succeed.
How is it possible, if, as your theory seems to suggest, that parents of one sexual orientation cannot possibly relate to a child of another?
Or, are you trying to suggest that she would not be gay if she had been raised by a single mother or single father? A grandmother? A wolf?
I grew up in the typical nuclear family with a married mom and dad and if it weren't for my father, I have no idea where I'd be right now.
My mom, while physically present was nasty, spiteful, unattached and emotionally avoidant. What she taught me was to lie, steal, use people to get what you want and to physically assault when needed.
It was my father that taught me what a lady should look like, how to speak correctly and carry myself with dignity, it was he that encouraged me to go to school, save money, be positive and explore the world. He was 10x the parent she was.
Ultimately, I believe the genders of the parent do not matter, its the quality of the parenting that makes all the difference.
You highlight a significant point, and the debate here is not about whether men or women make better parents, though by most measures, women win that argument hands down .. yours may be the exception, and there always are exceptions. There are also situations where the relationship between mother and father is so confrontational or negative, that the child is better off with the parents separated. That too is not that uncommon. But these are not the issues being debated ... the issue here is the appropriateness of homosexuals raising children, given that the vast majority of children can automatically be assumed heterosexually oriented at birth, and whether the dramatic differences between a homosexual home environment and a heterosexual one makes no difference.
By your own words, your father taught you those things that your mother failed to, or was incapable of teaching .. and her failure was likely based on the way she was raised. The issue is, can a homosexual of either gender teach a heterosexual child of either gender about those things that children look to for parental guidance pertaining to how a heterosexual female or male should behave and interact with other heterosexuals? How could they, since they have no personal frame of reference to draw upon themselves, being homosexuals?
The question might be ... what if your father wasn't there .. or wasn't the conscientious parent that he obviously was? What then? Can you see how a heterosexual child might be lost if relying upon homosexual parents to provide what they are incapable of providing, relative to how heterosexuals naturally interact with other heterosexuals of both genders? It's not a condemnation of homosexuals, or a question of whether they are conscientious enough to attend to children's needs ... but simply a matter of them having no personal frame of reference at a very fundamental level about natural heterosexual behaviors and attitudes, nor do they naturally express these behaviors on a daily basis for which children DO model their own behaviors after.
Furthermore, it's quite likely that there are some instances of homosexual parents being far better parents than some heterosexuals demonstrate ... but that's not the pertinent issue either, because that's one of those selective comparisons that is faulty logic .... of course a fender bender with minor bumps or bruises is better than a massive head on collision resulting in death, but the latter does not make the former a good thing.
This is one of the common tactics employed by those championing homosexual parenting ... pointing to all of the examples of poor heterosexual parents as their justification, but you won't see them reverse that formula and compare the nightmare stories of homosexuals raising confused and angry children, as told by those angry children .... that's off limits.
You highlight a significant point, and the debate here is not about whether men or women make better parents, though by most measures, women win that argument hands down .. yours may be the exception, and there always are exceptions. There are also situations where the relationship between mother and father is so confrontational or negative, that the child is better off with the parents separated. That too is not that uncommon. But these are not the issues being debated ... the issue here is the appropriateness of homosexuals raising children, given that the vast majority of children can automatically be assumed heterosexually oriented at birth, and whether the dramatic differences between a homosexual home environment and a heterosexual one makes no difference.
By your own words, your father taught you those things that your mother failed to, or was incapable of teaching .. and her failure was likely based on the way she was raised. The issue is, can a homosexual of either gender teach a heterosexual child of either gender about those things that children look to for parental guidance pertaining to how a heterosexual female or male should behave and interact with other heterosexuals? How could they, since they have no personal frame of reference to draw upon themselves, being homosexuals?
The question might be ... what if your father wasn't there .. or wasn't the conscientious parent that he obviously was? What then? Can you see how a heterosexual child might be lost if relying upon homosexual parents to provide what they are incapable of providing, relative to how heterosexuals naturally interact with other heterosexuals of both genders? It's not a condemnation of homosexuals, or a question of whether they are conscientious enough to attend to children's needs ... but simply a matter of them having no personal frame of reference at a very fundamental level about natural heterosexual behaviors and attitudes, nor do they naturally express these behaviors on a daily basis for which children DO model their own behaviors after.
Furthermore, it's quite likely that there are some instances of homosexual parents being far better parents than some heterosexuals demonstrate ... but that's not the pertinent issue either, because that's one of those selective comparisons that is faulty logic .... of course a fender bender with minor bumps or bruises is better than a massive head on collision resulting in death, but the latter does not make the former a good thing.
This is one of the common tactics employed by those championing homosexual parenting ... pointing to all of the examples of poor heterosexual parents as their justification, but you won't see them reverse that formula and compare the nightmare stories of homosexuals raising confused and angry children, as told by those angry children .... that's off limits.
If homosexual parents are incapable of "properly" raising heterosexual children, then by that logic, are heterosexual parents incapable of "properly" raising a homosexual child? inb4 if the child is homosexual, the parents failed at their job claim
You highlight a significant point, and the debate here is not about whether men or women make better parents, though by most measures, women win that argument hands down .. yours may be the exception, and there always are exceptions. There are also situations where the relationship between mother and father is so confrontational or negative, that the child is better off with the parents separated. That too is not that uncommon. But these are not the issues being debated ... the issue here is the appropriateness of homosexuals raising children, given that the vast majority of children can automatically be assumed heterosexually oriented at birth, and whether the dramatic differences between a homosexual home environment and a heterosexual one makes no difference.
By your own words, your father taught you those things that your mother failed to, or was incapable of teaching .. and her failure was likely based on the way she was raised. The issue is, can a homosexual of either gender teach a heterosexual child of either gender about those things that children look to for parental guidance pertaining to how a heterosexual female or male should behave and interact with other heterosexuals? How could they, since they have no personal frame of reference to draw upon themselves, being homosexuals?
The question might be ... what if your father wasn't there .. or wasn't the conscientious parent that he obviously was? What then? Can you see how a heterosexual child might be lost if relying upon homosexual parents to provide what they are incapable of providing, relative to how heterosexuals naturally interact with other heterosexuals of both genders? It's not a condemnation of homosexuals, or a question of whether they are conscientious enough to attend to children's needs ... but simply a matter of them having no personal frame of reference at a very fundamental level about natural heterosexual behaviors and attitudes, nor do they naturally express these behaviors on a daily basis for which children DO model their own behaviors after.
Furthermore, it's quite likely that there are some instances of homosexual parents being far better parents than some heterosexuals demonstrate ... but that's not the pertinent issue either, because that's one of those selective comparisons that is faulty logic .... of course a fender bender with minor bumps or bruises is better than a massive head on collision resulting in death, but the latter does not make the former a good thing.
This is one of the common tactics employed by those championing homosexual parenting ... pointing to all of the examples of poor heterosexual parents as their justification, but you won't see them reverse that formula and compare the nightmare stories of homosexuals raising confused and angry children, as told by those angry children .... that's off limits.
My partner and I raised 3 wonderful, high achieving, heterosexual children. We taught them to be good people and care about others. We taught them to be respectful of others. We taught them to love unconditionally.
The key to interacting with either sex is honesty, trust, and love. It really doesn't matter what is in your pants. You treat others as you would want to be treated.
That is a crock. A father is defintely a role model for a girl as it sets her standards for what she should expect and demand from other men that come into her life. If a father treats her and her mother (if there is a mother present) with respect, admiration and love, that girl will have the perfect example of how a man is supposed to treat a woman.
What if that father disrespects his wife and sexually abuses his daughter? This is not being a positive role model.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler
What would children choose if given a choice? A mom and a dad, two dads or two moms? Grandparents and aunts and uncles are capable or loving children and raising them too but if you gave them a choice, which would they choose?
If I could have a redo on my life I would choose the gay couple (male) my family knew.
I was that daughter above... that was my mother.
Neither parent was ideal and I learned nothing from them that I carry forth in my life. I may say things my mother said, but I don't act like her.
I've hated my father since I was a very, very small child. Everything he ever said to me went in one ear and out the other. (I sure wish "whatever" had been around back then... )
I love/loved my mom, but was not blinded by her many, many faults. (I am not without my own faults, but I've protected my son, something my mom failed to do with me and my siblings.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjrose
My partner and I raised 3 wonderful, high achieving, heterosexual children. We taught them to be good people and care about others. We taught them to be respectful of others. We taught them to love unconditionally. The key to interacting with either sex is honesty, trust, and love. It really doesn't matter what is in your pants. You treat others as you would want to be treated.
Exactly!
I grew up in that traditional household with mom and dad and there was NO trust or honesty. Love was there, but shown in the wrong ways at times.
My mom mellowed in her golden years and we became very close. However, she died without me telling her about the abuse I suffered as a child. I was waiting for her to apologize to me. It never happened.
My son was reared by two women (my mom and me) and he is as normal as someone with Asperger's can be.
If the right really cared "about the children" they wouldn't be obsessed with gay sex but would be funding social programs that help children in poor families.
Truth.
The OP can let us know when his concern for kids extends to funding free kindergarten, inner-city sports programs, stay-in-school programs, funding for school supplies for homeless kids.....
That homeless kid may have a male father and a female mother. The OP can tell us what good that does a 9-year old when he's sleeping in a car every night. Which matters most, OP? That homeless kid or your personal freak-out because two gay men you will never know will soon have the right to get married?
That is the way God Made it- Man and Woman. If Only we would listen to these children who have been brought up with the correct role model of a man and a woman family.
A child needs its parents. If the child grows up with only one because one has died, well, that's the child's parent, is it not? If a child grows up with 2 parents, both women, or both men, those are the parents the child loves, are they not? That's how I see it.
Stop picking on the kid, and just answer the question. Which parent is dispensible?
Which parent is dispensable of child raised by any combination of of parents? If there are two good parents, whether they be a man and woman, two women or two men, if the child loves both, the dilemma would always be the same. What is this...Sophie's Choice Jr.?
Yeah, and I can P1SS on a house fire to try and put it out, and I might get lucky and be successful, but I'd much rather have a firehose at my disposal.
Kids are more likely to turn out the best with a mom and a dad, rather than no dad and a deadbeat mom, or any other combination.
I'm sure my cousins would agree with you (since you quoted my story about them). But, what would you have suggested in their case? (Their mom did not remarry.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by sharkhunter
Its not about some idea of a perfect family. A family is what a family is. It can be one man and a child, a man and a woman, two men, two women, or any combination. A single mom and her kid is a family. Just because some have some anal retentive idea of the perfect family keep it to yourself.
Exactly!
Quote:
Originally Posted by claudhopper
So it is your opinion that this child doesn't need the Mom.
At least we have someone answering the question now.
That is not what the poster said and you know it.
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I agree with those who say that young girl's parents were using her for their political gain. I have never been impressed with this "out of the mouths of babes" stuff.
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