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Great post. Being a mother is not a requirement and certainly women should not feel pressured to have children. In fact more thought on the subject prior to getting pregnant is a good thing. However, the folks who have kids and regret it are speaking for themselves only whether there be thousands or millions. Some on this board seem to feel the rest of us who have no regrets are somehow "repressing" our feelings on parenthood. Utter crap was the perfect phrase for thoughts along those lines. Kudos.
Where, and I think you should supply a quote, have you read ANYTHING here that even comes close to suggesting any such thing?
You're reading things into people's comments that border on being delusional. Parenting is a very tough job--sometimes it's fun, and sometimes it's a lot of very hard work. I adore my kids and I have zero regrets, but if you didn't want to be a parent to begin with, I imagine the whole process could be pretty miserable. How does anything, that anyone has said here about their own feelings, reflect on YOU.
I think more than anything else, this is a good reason to make sure that you have common goals before you marry someone. People think they'll change someone, but that usually doesn't work out well in the end. It's not selfish to not want kids--it's honest. I did want children--desperately--but my life would have been easier and less stressful without mine, and there are moments when I've felt overwhelmed. Every mom feels that way at some point or another. I was willing to make that trade off--I adore my children and I don't want to think about my life without them--but when someone is honest enough to admit that they don't feel the same way, you need to listen.
And the OP is right--I think she's expressing the honest thoughts that many women have, but are afraid to admit.
Sadly, that is probably true, but if it is, it's just a symptom of a greater disease. But let's not make an absurd claim that this is not selfishness .... this woman personifies the core essence of EXTREME selfishness, and it oozes from every pore. Certainly, it's a personal choice to bring children into your world, and if one chooses not to, that is their decision to make, and it doesn't matter what the reason. But, to acquiesce to having children that you did not want, just to placate or please your partner, is just another demonstration of selfishness. Worse yet, even now, 33 years later, she apparently still insists on blaming her grown children for the choices she made, which they had no part in making. I say, contrary to her feelings of victimhood, it is her children who were, and still are the true victims.
There is a particularly foul and offensive nature expressed in her "honesty" (as you call it) when she says about her daughter (the 2nd child):
"Yet I dreaded her dependence; resented the time she would consume, and that like parasites, both my children would continue to take from me and give nothing meaningful back in return".
This is not an example of "honesty" ... this is a totally unnecessary public affirmation of spiritual bankruptcy, as well as a disgusting level of selfishness, and the absence of normal human emotion that comes naturally to most people. Even the most rough and tumble male can find their more gentle side, summoned by the bright, innocent eyes of a child who looks to them for love and protection. This women sees only parasites? My oh my ... to refer to any child as a parasite is disturbing, let alone your own children. So she looks upon her own children as "parasites", consuming her and taking from her, while giving nothing meaningful back to her? Nice. This woman is not honest, she's honestly an extreme example of a narcissist, and likely a pure sociopath, who wants to blame her children for her own inability to find beauty and joy in life. But if a person cannot can't find even a glimmer of beauty in the eyes of their own children, the search for such beauty will be futile.
Having these feelings is one thing .. expressing them publicly, and in plain view of her grown children is the ultimate and continued demonstration of her extreme narcissism. And for what purpose does she publicly reveal these emotions and feelings? So, she can "feel better", and get this off her chest? Or, are these the actions of a vindictive, hateful women who decided to deliver a psychological body slam to those "parasites" as payback for "ruining" her life? A person with even an ounce of compassion or empathy would take such feelings to the grave, rather than make them public, and inflict the emotional distress such remarks will cause her grown children to feel. Applaud her honesty? I think not. She's a spiritually bankrupt creature, perhaps deserving pity ... but nothing more than that.
Sadly, that is probably true, but if it is, it's just a symptom of a greater disease. But let's not make an absurd claim that this is not selfishness .... this woman personifies the core essence of EXTREME selfishness, and it oozes from every pore. Certainly, it's a personal choice to bring children into your world, and if one chooses not to, that is their decision to make, and it doesn't matter what the reason. But, to acquiesce to having children that you did not want, just to placate or please your partner, is just another demonstration of selfishness. Worse yet, even now, 33 years later, she apparently still insists on blaming her grown children for the choices she made, which they had no part in making. I say, contrary to her feelings of victimhood, it is her children who were, and still are the true victims.
There is a particularly foul and offensive nature expressed in her "honesty" (as you call it) when she says about her daughter (the 2nd child):
"Yet I dreaded her dependence; resented the time she would consume, and that like parasites, both my children would continue to take from me and give nothing meaningful back in return".
This is not an example of "honesty" ... this is a totally unnecessary public affirmation of spiritual bankruptcy, as well as a disgusting level of selfishness, and the absence of normal human emotion that comes naturally to most people. Even the most rough and tumble male can find their more gentle side, summoned by the bright, innocent eyes of a child who looks to them for love and protection. This women sees only parasites? My oh my ... to refer to any child as a parasite is disturbing, let alone your own children. So she looks upon her own children as "parasites", consuming her and taking from her, while giving nothing meaningful back to her? Nice. This woman is not honest, she's honestly an extreme example of a narcissist, and likely a pure sociopath, who wants to blame her children for her own inability to find beauty and joy in life. But if a person cannot can't find even a glimmer of beauty in the eyes of their own children, the search for such beauty will be futile.
Having these feelings is one thing .. expressing them publicly, and in plain view of her grown children is the ultimate and continued demonstration of her extreme narcissism. And for what purpose does she publicly reveal these emotions and feelings? So, she can "feel better", and get this off her chest? Or, are these the actions of a vindictive, hateful women who decided to deliver a psychological body slam to those "parasites" as payback for "ruining" her life? A person with even an ounce of compassion or empathy would take such feelings to the grave, rather than make them public, and inflict the emotional distress such remarks will cause her grown children to feel. Applaud her honesty? I think not. She's a spiritually bankrupt creature, perhaps deserving pity ... but nothing more than that.
Do I think she should have ever written that essay? No. Do I think it was damaging to her children to say something like that publicly? Absolutely. Do I think quite a few women feel the same way she does? Yes. Is she being honest about it? Yes. Based on her essay, I don't like this woman. It really was a selfish thing to say this publicly where her kids can read it--I don't disagree--but she was honest. People are angry because she said something very taboo that at least some women feel.
That's the point. If you don't want to have children, you SHOULDN'T. You need to make that clear before you get married, but I promise you--she isn't the first person and she won't be the last, who winds up having kids when they didn't want them. Part of that is dysfunction in a marriage--expecting that your spouse will change their mind over time and putting major pressure on them. Part of it for some is poor planning (no birth control) and part of it is the societal belief that somethings really wrong with you if you're a woman and you don't want kids.
I don't think it's as bad as it used to be, but society used to think women were terrible who didn't have children, and you expressed those same sentiments here--that women who don't want children have something really wrong with them, and they're unnatural. I can give a personal example. This was decades ago, but my husband and I had a daughter who died shortly after birth, and I almost died right along with her. After that, it was impossible for me to have children of my own. We wound up adopting, but I can't tell you the number of people--strangers--who felt perfectly comfortable calling me selfish and "career driven" (like it was an insult) because we didn't have children after a certain number of years of marriage. I didn't think it was any of their business that we'd lost a child, or that I couldn't have children biologically. I desperately wanted my kids, but there absolutely WAS pressure for women to be moms to be considered normal, and there was open hostility (like yours) when you didn't have children. I don't think there's anything wrong with admitting that that type of public pressure was a real issue, and evidently still is.
When you condemn and attack people who are honest about not wanting kids, you feed that cycle of crappy parents raising messed up kids who become crappy parents themselves. I think it's better to just admit you're not cut out for parenting, and save your potential kids a lot of pain and grief by not having them to begin with. I'm not criticizing this woman for feeling the way she does--just for not acting on it and having kids anyway, and then dragging her kids through this public mess. Writing that essay was selfish, but the good part is that we're having a public discussion about the issue, instead of pretending that every "normal" women is dying to be a mom. Many aren't, and shouldn't be. There's nothing wrong with that.
Sadly, that is probably true, but if it is, it's just a symptom of a greater disease. But let's not make an absurd claim that this is not selfishness .... this woman personifies the core essence of EXTREME selfishness, and it oozes from every pore. Certainly, it's a personal choice to bring children into your world, and if one chooses not to, that is their decision to make, and it doesn't matter what the reason. But, to acquiesce to having children that you did not want, just to placate or please your partner, is just another demonstration of selfishness. Worse yet, even now, 33 years later, she apparently still insists on blaming her grown children for the choices she made, which they had no part in making. I say, contrary to her feelings of victimhood, it is her children who were, and still are the true victims.
There is a particularly foul and offensive nature expressed in her "honesty" (as you call it) when she says about her daughter (the 2nd child):
"Yet I dreaded her dependence; resented the time she would consume, and that like parasites, both my children would continue to take from me and give nothing meaningful back in return".
This is not an example of "honesty" ... this is a totally unnecessary public affirmation of spiritual bankruptcy, as well as a disgusting level of selfishness, and the absence of normal human emotion that comes naturally to most people. Even the most rough and tumble male can find their more gentle side, summoned by the bright, innocent eyes of a child who looks to them for love and protection. This women sees only parasites? My oh my ... to refer to any child as a parasite is disturbing, let alone your own children. So she looks upon her own children as "parasites", consuming her and taking from her, while giving nothing meaningful back to her? Nice. This woman is not honest, she's honestly an extreme example of a narcissist, and likely a pure sociopath, who wants to blame her children for her own inability to find beauty and joy in life. But if a person cannot can't find even a glimmer of beauty in the eyes of their own children, the search for such beauty will be futile.
Having these feelings is one thing .. expressing them publicly, and in plain view of her grown children is the ultimate and continued demonstration of her extreme narcissism. And for what purpose does she publicly reveal these emotions and feelings? So, she can "feel better", and get this off her chest? Or, are these the actions of a vindictive, hateful women who decided to deliver a psychological body slam to those "parasites" as payback for "ruining" her life? A person with even an ounce of compassion or empathy would take such feelings to the grave, rather than make them public, and inflict the emotional distress such remarks will cause her grown children to feel. Applaud her honesty? I think not. She's a spiritually bankrupt creature, perhaps deserving pity ... but nothing more than that.
I agree with everything you said. To have those feelings and share them privately with a close friend or therapist is one thing - but to tell the world you wish you hadn't ever had your own children . . . . is the ultimate in selfishness. While I certainly respect the fact that not all women want children; I do not applaud her honesty at this stage of the game.
And to the poster criticizing daycare - would you prefer we working women went on welfare instead? Or perhaps we should have abortions as opposed to putting our children in daycare. I see what daycare did for MY son. He's comfortable around other kids; he's a leader; a student athlete and loves his mother. So - please - lighten up on those of us that must work. You are damned if you do and damned if you don't around here.
Do I think she should have ever written that essay? No. Do I think it was damaging to her children to say something like that publicly? Absolutely. Do I think quite a few women feel the same way she does? Yes. Is she being honest about it? Yes. Based on her essay, I don't like this woman. It really was a selfish thing to do--I don't disagree--but she was honest. People are angry because she said something very taboo that at least some women feel.
There is nothing honest about blaming your own self imposed misery and emotional shortcomings and struggles with adult life on children who played no role in the choices made by such adults. Was this some aspiring and promising actress or model or musician, who was forced to abandon their calling in life, because of an accidental pregnancy? No ... she was a 22 year old typist, who chose to get married, and chose to have children ... not just one child, but two! The point is, we are individually responsible for the choices we make and the paths we choose in life, and solely responsible for the results. I find nothing at all honest in the effort to blame others for those choices and results, but find it the supreme expression of dishonesty, by refusing to be honest with yourself, and accept full responsibility for those decisions.
She behaves as though these children were unwelcome invaders, who imposed themselves on her life, which would have turned out grand otherwise. Yet, she's never demonstrated honesty, right from the very beginning ... as she admits to marrying a man who wanted children, while she never did. This is the first instance of dishonesty. Not only was she being dishonest with her husband, from day one, but herself as well. And she continues to be dishonest, by refusing to accept her own responsibility for the choices she made . She'd rather blame the children, even now, 33 years later, the blame is placed on the kids. You think that's an expression of honesty? Hardly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mb1547
That's the point. If you don't want to have children, you SHOULDN'T. You need to make that clear before you get married, but I promise you--she isn't the first person and she won't be the last, who winds up having kids when they didn't want them. Part of that is dysfunction in a marriage--expecting that your spouse will change their mind over time and putting major pressure on them. Part of it for some is poor planning (no birth control) and part of it is the belief that somethings really wrong with you if you're a woman and you don't want kids.
I don't think it's as bad as it used to be, but society used to think women were terrible who didn't have children, and you expressed those same sentiments here--that women who don't want children have something really wrong with them, and they're unnatural. I can give a personal example. This was decades ago, but my husband and I had a daughter who died shortly after birth, and I almost died right along with her. After that, it was impossible for me to have children of my own. We wound up adopting, but I can't tell you the number of people--strangers--who felt perfectly comfortable calling me selfish and "career driven" (like it was an insult) because we didn't have children after a certain number of years of marriage. I didn't think it was any of their business that we'd lost a child, or that I couldn't have children biologically. I desperately wanted my kids, but there absolutely WAS pressure for women to be moms to be considered normal, and there was open hostility (like yours) when you didn't have children. I don't think there's anything wrong with admitting that that type of public pressure was a real issue, and evidently still is.
I have not one iota of hostility toward women who choose not to have children. In fact, for some women (and men) it is the much better decision. My problem resides in the idea that a women or a man could look upon children as "parasites". That, I consider to be offensive, morally disgusting, spiritually bankrupt, and ABSOLUTELY ABNORMAL. That some, or even many may feel that way, does not make it any less abnormal. The reality is, for most species on the planet, there is no stronger instinct than the defense and protection of their offspring, even to the extent of overriding the natural instinct of self preservation. And that is a normal instinct of human beings as well. The absence of such natural instinct is without a doubt, ABNORMAL.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mb1547
When you condemn and attack people who are honest about not wanting kids just because they don't want kids, you feed that cycle of crappy parents raising messed up kids who become crappy parents themselves. I think it's better to just admit you're not cut out for parenting, and save your potential kids a lot of pain and grief by not having them to begin with. I'm not criticizing this woman for feeling the way she does--just for not acting on it and having kids anyway, and then dragging her kids through this public mess.
I think I've made my point clear, and if you feel compelled to make excuses for this disturbed and twisted soul, who looks upon children as parasites, you ought to spend more time on self analysis, and less time analyzing me.
I agree with everything you said. To have those feelings and share them privately with a close friend or therapist is one thing - but to tell the world you wish you hadn't ever had your own children . . . . is the ultimate in selfishness. While I certainly respect the fact that not all women want children; I do not applaud her honesty at this stage of the game.
And to the poster criticizing daycare - would you prefer we working women went on welfare instead? Or perhaps we should have abortions as opposed to putting our children in daycare. I see what daycare did for MY son. He's comfortable around other kids; he's a leader; a student athlete and loves his mother. So - please - lighten up on those of us that must work. You are damned if you do and damned if you don't
around here.
And i agree with both of you. What i hope is that this is a wake up call, to those women, or young teens that have no problem popping out children as pop tarts.
Guess what sorry to be so honest, but this is me, spreading ones legs, that easily, and then having a baby, does not make you Mother of the year.
Having children is something to be taken very seriously, not casually and discussed before marriage. Having a child, does not make one a good parent. And yes it is hard work, for those of us who raised great children as i have, and many of you pat yourself on the back.
This is a sad story, but a women being totally honest, about her feelings, and how sad this is. To tell the world in this way, how she feels about her children, must of been at witt's end.
No i applaud you for working, and not going on welfare, which some people insist maybe you should. There are many good daycares out there, just have to find the right one.
Sex today is no big deal, young young teens are having sex, and this is going to be the consequences, because there are many that are not emotionally or on a mature level, to accept responsibility for their children. Children are not stupid, they know whey are loved, and they know when they are not!
Where, and I think you should supply a quote, have you read ANYTHING here that even comes close to suggesting any such thing?
You're reading things into people's comments that border on being delusional. Parenting is a very tough job--sometimes it's fun, and sometimes it's a lot of very hard work. I adore my kids and I have zero regrets, but if you didn't want to be a parent to begin with, I imagine the whole process could be pretty miserable. How does anything, that anyone has said here about their own feelings, reflect on YOU.
Try Googling "Do Parents envy the Childfree". Read some of the links that come up. Or read some of the threads on the Parenting Forum. If you truly believe that there not any folks who are believers in the universal regret of parents, I have a bridge for sale you'd just love.
And thanks for the heads up on parenting. I so needed your sage advise.
And they won't let women have them until they've had a kid already.
The ignorance of some people is beyond me.
They participate in threads where this is posted frequently and still they deny the facts.
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